Chatstar Interview: Building a 7-Figure OnlyFans Chatting Empire

Talent Management: Alright, awesome. We are live. So, everybody welcome Chatstar to the channel who has a very cool mask himself. Do we maybe want to start on why we're both wearing masks? You first, of course.

Chatstar: It's a pleasure for you to have me here. This is the first one of these that I've done. So this is kind of exciting new territory, to be honest with you. And I've been following your journey. And I've known of you and I've spoken to you a few times. So I have a lot of respect for what you're doing in the business. And especially with this YouTube channel, I got to tell you, I've watched all of your videos at this point, there's so much education in what you're providing.

For someone that's maybe a little bit of a backwards approach to the industry, who's kind of catching up on some other marketing stuff, social media stuff. I think that the value that's in a lot of your content is really high up there.

For me, I was kind of even asking you where'd you get this mask? You recommended me. I got to be honest with you. I'm not — I don't really care. I think what I've created, my name in this industry, I'm proud of what I've done. I think I've ran this business in a very ethical way. I think my reputation for the most part is relatively spotless, which I think is one of the biggest things.

And it's not even so much about family or anything like that. My parents know what I do basically. It's just more so that I have big plans in business. This is my first I would say largely successful business and I have a lot of room to grow, not just in here, but also in other areas of business. And I think that being out there known as one of the leading heads of chatting on OnlyFans basically, associating my face with that directly, it's just not the smartest move. I have bigger things and people are going to find out anyway if it ever gets to that point, but let them jump through some hoops.

For now, let's keep it like this. I think the information or at least the value that people are going to get out of this podcast is going to be good. And let's focus on that. And then we're worried about the rest later. What about you?

Talent Management: 100%. For me, I think there's a few different elements at play. I am like a millennial, so I'm a child of the internet and I grew up in private chat rooms. So like, IRC channels and forums for various interests. And so from day one, the internet to me has always been sort of this simultaneous experiment in total connectedness and also how do I protect my own anonymity and privacy and identity in the information age where everything is public information.

So part of it is a desire to maintain that privacy and protect my identity for actually very similar reasons to you where I'm not sure that this is going to be — I'm not sure that I'm going to be in this industry for the rest of my life. I have an interest in media more broadly. And so I think that there's a decent possibility that if I publicly associate myself with this industry, which while I do think that there is a growing, let's say destigmatization of sex work writ large, I'm not so sure that history will look favorably upon this business.

And so I don't know if you've seen, I did an interview with Soft White Underbelly. So I did a soft white underbelly interview and there are like, he's featured people — he's featured Los Angeles pimps that have raped and prostituted 13 year old girls. And the comment sentiment in those interviews is more favorable than the ones in my interview. So people really don't like this industry for whatever reason.

And so part of it is protecting my own identity, but also protecting my family and insulating them from any potential backlash that I might face. Like you, I'm not ashamed of what I do. I've run my business ethically. Everything is above board. Everything's legal. There's really no what I would consider ethically or morally or legally gray territory in what I do. But nonetheless, I think it's better to be safe than sorry.

Chatstar: Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. On certain aspects, there definitely is a morality clause in there somewhere for sure. And we can sort of touch on that later on, I guess. But I agree with you, I think for the time being.

You know, I and I've experienced this as well. I'm trying to network in other areas of business and there's other business owners who, mind you, at this stage of my career and business in general, I employ more people combined than some of these networking groups that I'm in. It just so happens that the people that I employ are overseas. But we can touch on the fairness and how we structured things to where it is like a real company. I mean, it's a very corporate environment at this stage.

But it just doesn't garner the same level of respect. And then people look down on it. It's like, you have an ecom business or whatever, and you're selling snake oil, some fucking stupid supplement. And somehow what I'm selling is — I don't know, I could see both sides. It just the fraternity aspect of it is a little strange.

Talent Management: We're definitely gonna get into that. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Well, I think that's a good jumping off point. Why don't you just kind of quickly introduce yourself, explain your origin story, how you got introduced to OFM and what you're doing now.

Chatstar: I've always been in business or at least business oriented. I immigrated to the United States as a kid. I was around 10 years old and my family was not very well off growing up. And just like everybody else that's kind of grown up with a chip on their shoulder, you start figuring things out early. You start fending for yourself.

And early on, my earliest businesses were I had a YouTube channel with 50,000 subscribers when I was in high school for gaming. I turned pro in Call of Duty. I was sponsored by a headset company and I was basically playing video games professionally. And that kind of ran its course. I wanted to go to college and actually talk to girls.

And so after that ran its course, I tried to do the college thing. Obviously foreign parents, they want to impose colleges the way. And I went to college and I studied computational biology, which what the fuck does that mean? I can't tell you, but I was going down a computer science route essentially.

And very quickly I realized that that's not for me. So even in college I was hustling all the time. I was working as a door guy at a club but then I was selling wristbands for certain events or I was trying to spin off this business to the side, that business to the side.

And my story really, I'll preface it as this, almost a decade and a half of failure. I think the reason why I dropped the YouTube stuff was because in high school I was not very popular at all and I started to garner a little bit of that, I got a taste of what living life is like and I had a little bit of money in my pocket and I thought I was the man going into college and all of a sudden girls are talking to me and I'm like, fuck this gaming shit, I'm just gonna live life for a little bit.

And so in college I had the duality of I'm trying to study this thing that I'm unpassionate about and I'm also investing all of my time into random shit, just hustling. And nothing worked out. I went down the ecom route. I went down the crypto route, made money, lost money all the way up and down. My bank account's been up to six figures and down to zero several times in life.

And at one point, I lived in New York. I dropped out of college. I lived in New York and I was in front of the camera. I was doing modeling work and acting work, massive failure on that front. But my time in New York was about survival. It wasn't so much about living.

And so when I stepped out of it and I moved back home, I was like, I'd be better behind the camera instead of in front of it. And that's when I stepped into my first real business, I would say, which was a videography business. I was a traveling videographer. I started doing nightclubs. I was making money with that before I was even good at it.

And then that career eventually spanned into doing festivals and filming for celebrities and doing corporate gigs. And then, of course, a little known thing known as the pandemic came around. And my business got wiped to the ground.

Talent Management: I think I heard about that. It's 2019, 2020, something like that. Something crazy happened.

Chatstar: Yeah, exactly. And so it was a creative field of which I am the sole entity of like my creative vision is the only thing that makes it special. So the scalability is not there. And then AI is not around at the time. So it's not like I can use my creative skills towards anything.

And simultaneously, I also go through a pretty traumatic breakup. So COVID hits, we run that for four months, my business is going down. I got maybe 60, 80K in the bank something like that saved up over the past few years, nothing crazy, and my girlfriend and I break up and it's like my life is kind of falling apart.

And at the time I start doing day trading shit and I make a bunch of money on this stupid thing one day and as quickly as I make it I also burn right through it. And I start jumping into this negative headspace, like going out, medicating with drugs and alcohol, essentially.

And then my friend kind of saw the rut I was in, I wouldn't even call it a rut, I would just call it like legitimately a path to doom, and he saw the rut I was in, and he said, you need to come out here, I'm going to tell you about what we're doing. And we'll see how I can help.

So he was living in North Florida at the time. So I go to North Florida. I stay with them for a couple of days. And we're eating steaks every night and going out to restaurants. And he buys a new car. And I'm like, how the fuck are you guys doing this? It's him and his girlfriend. And he's not divulging anything at first.

And all of a sudden, we get drunk one night. He's basically like, all right, you can't tell anybody. I'm like, OK. He's like, my girlfriend's doing OnlyFans and I'm like, shut the fuck up. What are you talking about?

Talent Management: And this is still 2020, 2021, right?

Chatstar: Yeah, this is January 2020, February 2020. And so he shows me kind of what's going on. He shows me how much money they're making, which is it's not that much money. They're probably making 10 grand a month, something like that, which is a lot for them. And he's like showing me how they did it. And he's basically explaining to me how you make money on the platform.

We're sitting in his apartment. He's like open up the laptop and just try to chat on here and see what you can do. So I get on there and literally first hour I start getting $200 paid, $200 paid to her. I make like two grand in the span of 30 minutes.

And I'm like, what the fuck is happening here? This shit is easy. And so he gave me a job, really. He said, like, all right, you're going to be the chatter on this page. We're going to pay you this. And then I took that page from 7, 10K to 80K, basically, as the sole chatter on the page. And I was working 10 to 15 hours a day some days, seven days a week, basically.

And throughout that process, my brain was — I was seeing what other pages are doing, and it was a lot of the let's get naughty, a lot of the super sexual nature conversations. It was just a lot of sex talk. And everybody was doing the same thing. If I'm subscribed to 10 pages, they all look the same.

Talent Management: So your intro was as a chatter. That's super interesting. Yeah, of course.

Chatstar: And so I start developing some strategies or at least the way that I would communicate, not even from the perspective of a girl, from the perspective of me. And I think I'm kind of fucking funny. I think most people wouldn't agree, but you know?

Talent Management: I think most men probably just at some level want to fuck a girl that behaves and talks and thinks like a guy. Like that would be the ideal scenario, so it makes sense.

Chatstar: Yeah, exactly. And so I start putting pen to paper and I start strategizing and sort of explaining a lot of this, basically putting it in an encyclopedia of sorts. And then a real business from it starts to span. So we start to sign a bunch more girls. I'm training chatters now. And that was sort of the birth of everything.

And then from there, I wish that was where the story ended and it was all sunshine and rainbows after that and I started making a bunch of money and driving Lambos. It was not that at all. It was really — I was not in the greatest mental space. I went from drinking and doing drugs every day to working 16 hours a day.

Talent Management: Right, replacing one addiction with another.

Chatstar: Exactly. So then, but it inevitably leads to burnout. And then also the people who I was working with, one day I would be hyper available or while I'm on, I'm on, while I'm off, you can't find me, which is not a great way to work really. And then through time, that's definitely changed. It's improved drastically.

But I had to go through those tough lessons and having those people sort of put their foot down and say, Hey man, you need to go your own way because of the way that you're kind of behaving. I'd rather you be here 80%, 100% of the time, rather than 100%, 80% of the time. And that's a mentality that I've adopted and sort of trained to my staff now, because I was that guy. I was the guy whose grandma died every five days, new grandmas are dying.

Talent Management: Yeah, devastating, I'm sure.

Chatstar: Yeah, exactly. And so after that kind of partnership fizzled out, or I shouldn't even say fizzled out, I was basically kicked out, I was like, all right, what do I do? COVID is kind of on the back end of it. Do I go back to this videography thing and try to spin that up again? Or do I continue with this business?

And to me, I saw — I want to provide a better life for myself and my family. And I just didn't see that with my old career path, like touring and going to festivals and drinking on the job a lot of the time and then editing for days on end.

Talent Management: Yeah. Kind of have to be fucked up for a lot of that.

Chatstar: Exactly. And then editing for literally sleepless nights, days on end, it just didn't seem like something that's going to make me rich quick. And not that I'm the get rich quick guy. I just saw a bigger opportunity here.

And long story short, I'll sort of speed it up for you. But I ended up kind of going down the full agency route with me and another partner. And it just wasn't working like we had so many issues. We were hiring models from abroad, doing salary model collecting through pack some which was freezing our money every five seconds. And nothing was going right man. We were fucking dying. We basically make a dollar spend a dollar and the business for the first year or so was sustainable enough for us to pay for our apartment which was $2,000 a month wherever we were living, do a bit of traveling not for fun basically just for where is the next cheap place to live that's going to give us a visa.

A year of that and we decided we don't really know what we're doing on the marketing side, but we're really good at the chatting. So we're going to partner with somebody that understands marketing and business. So we do that. And it almost sinks us to the ground. This guy ends up being a nightmare to work with. We almost signed papers and everything. Luckily we avoided that.

Talent Management: This is the guy who is ostensibly going to be your partner in this endeavor. Yeah.

Chatstar: Essentially, yes. So me and my current partner are now jumping into bed with somebody else, and that relationship ends up being such a disaster. The guy doesn't follow through on anything that he's saying really, he's a nightmare to work with. He's kind of scammy. He wants additional percentages, even though we understand the business, it just doesn't make sense.

And he kind of had an idea at the time to reach out to somebody that he knew in Miami, and try to offer chat services because he saw how good we were behind the chatting. I had a core staff of around 12 or 15 people and they were just smashing pages. And I was managing everybody.

So we tested this on an account, the account goes from 3k to 20k. He's like what the fuck and then so he reaches out to a buddy of his in Miami who's got a big OnlyFans agency and he's like let's test out chatting services for your pages.

So we take a page on and the page doing maybe 13k and then it does 16k that month. Then the next page comes on, the page is doing 20k, all of a sudden it's doing 80. The next page comes on, it's doing 50k, now it's doing 150. The next page comes on, now it's a 200k client, 350. And the results like that were consistent. So not just this agency owner, but every agency owner was like what the fuck.

Talent Management: Yeah. Yeah, those are not common results.

Chatstar: Right, exactly. And so that relationship basically started with that guy, but our relationship amongst me, my partner and him was awful. It was not advantageous to anybody like us at all. And meanwhile, we're running our core business with our Colombian models with our foreign models, and that's sinking into the ground because all the time we're putting in is going into these other girls.

So basically, this is 2023 or something. We're like, all right, I called the guy. I'm like, we're gonna stop working with you. I don't care if you're working on all these hundred K pages. I can't handle this. And I'm just gonna focus on the core here.

And January of 2023, we did about $2,000 in profit. We literally almost lost the business. Starting from scratch, we had three models left. Me and my partner looking at each other were like do we think we're gonna have to get jobs man, this isn't sustainable. Straight up.

Talent Management: Back to McDonald's.

Chatstar: And ironically, a month later, I get a call from that same agency owner who was handing us all those pages and he's like, aren't you the guy that was working for this other agency? I'm like, the guy over there said that he fired you. I'm like, interesting. Don't you have to work somewhere in order for you to be fired?

And so I basically tell him the whole story, and he's like, man, I really don't like working with that guy. I heard you're the brains of the operation. I'm like, you heard correct. He's like, what would you say if I basically took all of the clients that he has with us and I gave them over to you because I just don't like dealing with them and I'm like yeah that'd be alright.

Talent Management: I wouldn't love that at all. I'm mildly intrigued.

Chatstar: I'm like, yeah, let's run it. And again, we get a page and kill it straight away. So now our business goes from doing two grand in January to 20 grand in February to 45 grand in March. We're like, shit, we're back, baby. This is what it's always supposed to be.

But we get greedy. And so we're like, we want agency girls. We don't want to be a chat agency. This is stupid. We're just working for somebody else.

So we go and we make another stupid decision and partner with somebody else on a marketing side. We should have learned our lesson the first time, honestly. But this guy's way flashier. We fly out to different states to meet this guy. And it's Lambos and Rolls Royces and he's got a hot wife and his hot wife is making 300k a month. And it's the whole shebang.

And we're looking at each other like, hey, let's take a risk here. Let's run it. We can continue this chatting thing. But I think that we should eat out of the whole piece of the pie.

And so we go down that route. And that guy to his credit, he's very sneaky with it, but he essentially makes himself the holding company owner, which owns essentially our business. And then he creates a marketing business. And then siphons half of the profit over to the marketing business, which he's the sole owner of, which basically earns him profit. And now we become 50% owners in our own chatting business. It makes absolutely no sense.

Talent Management: Mmm. Got it.

Chatstar: And it took us a while to figure it out. We were like, where's the money? We were going from making almost a hundred grand in May, June, to now we're taking a six K salary. We're like, what's happening? And it's always like, the money's going to marketing or growing or you don't need to take that much money out of the business yet. We're in early phases as a startup, blah, blah, blah.

Talent Management: Yeah. Yeah, something is not clicking here. Yeah.

Chatstar: It turns out that that guy just had a greater master plan of what he was trying to do. He ended up partnering with another chatting agency. So basically diluting our business. So all business would funnel through him and he would decide which team he puts it on out of which we're just one. So again, it's our own, I would say, stupidity and our own novice-ness in being business owners and being careful of who we get into bed with.

Talent Management: Just an expensive lesson.

Chatstar: But again, hindsight is 20-20, obviously, as people say, and after a few months of that, I start waking up and realizing what's going on. And I'm like, what the fuck do I do here? And I start figuring out an exit strategy.

And so we end up taking all the employees and cutting off access to any of them so that they can't be reached out to, and just start making calls left, right and center, like, Hey, this is what's going on. This is what my partner is doing. I'm doing my own solo thing. Do you want to come over? They're like, yeah, man, of course, you're the guy that's running the chats anyway.

So after all that, we're back to being a chat agency. And that I would consider to be the final stop. That's when I stopped being stupid and just focused on what I'm good at. And we ran that for the past two years extremely successfully.

Talent Management: And that's Chatstar. Got it. OK.

Chatstar: That's Chatstar. And we ran that extremely successfully. It's been a very good business and I'm so grateful that I went through all the shit with just not just in business and partners and all that, but also through the marketing. And I'm so grateful that I hyper focused on chat for such a long time to the point where now that we're signing our own models in house, I feel very confident that we've worked backwards.

Step one, the chat is solved. Step two, add a small layer of marketing like something that's functional but it works. And then step three is branding and all that, or you could go a completely different route and do straight-up organic like how you're doing.

And so now to round it all off, I would consider the bulk of our business to be chatting clients, smaller in terms of overall gross revenue, but in terms of net revenue, we do have in-house models which pay a lot more.

Talent Management: Sure, of course. Yeah, your margins are always going to be higher on models that you manage, but you're also managing models. So there's additional services and sort of headaches that come with that.

Chatstar: Exactly. And so right now we're doing — I think last month we did around, just on inflow is what I'm saying. So I can't really separate it right now. But on inflow, we did around 7.2 million.

Talent Management: Sure, yeah. Last month? Incredible. That's fantastic. Yeah, that's phenomenal. OK, so I'm going to take 20 steps back here because I want to get into the details.

I want to talk about performance, what numbers look like, what your percentage basis of revenue is on the model management side versus the chatting agency side. I'm going to take 20 steps back here. Pretend I'm a total layperson. I don't know anything about OnlyFans, and you're elevator pitching — maybe I'm an investor or something. How would you explain the concept of chatting in the context of OnlyFans management and why does it matter? Why is chatting important?

Chatstar: To me, you got to think of an OnlyFans page like a sponge. So marketing is kind of the water that you're pouring on it. Content is sort of the faucet, essentially in a way. And then chatting is the hands that ring it as dry as possible. So if you got baby hands squeezing this sponge, you're not going to get all the water out. But if you got big old man hands grabbing that thing and just wringing it dry, then that sponge is going to end up being as dry as possible.

Talent Management: Got it. I like that. I wasn't going to parse the faucet and the water, but when you started wringing the sponge out, I was like, okay, I get it. I thought this is good.

Chatstar: So that's how I would explain it at least.

Talent Management: Got it, okay. And in terms of the actual mechanics, what do chatters do? Like what service are you actually providing to your clients? Again, pretend like I don't know anything about OnlyFans here.

Chatstar: And I feel like I'm giving you a sales pitch. The chatter specifically, their job is basically fan management. So keeping customers as happy as possible and then selling — that's their number one priority. The sales strategies are specific to individual pages. There are certain things that work for some pages better than others.

As far as the service goes, we're there to curate the fans and sell as much as possible. Ring that sponge as dry as possible. But another thing that we find is super necessary is communication. So our teams provide 24/7 communication for models and agencies. We're kind of a white label company. So agencies reach out to us and they say, Hey, man, I don't want to have anything to do with the backend. I want you to talk to my model for me.

If she's complaining about something on her OF page, if she doesn't like captioning, if she doesn't like the way a specific chatter is talking, certain content being sold, or she needs content requests, I don't want to have to deal with any of that. And we're like, okay fair enough. Here's an entire stack of team who will give to your model that's their 24/7 who's going to communicate with her and it works both ways.

The chatters will do their part in order to sell as much as possible. And then the front-end team, at least the team that she sees, is gonna basically cater to her every request.

Talent Management: Got it. OK. That makes perfect sense. OK, so now back to kind of we understand mechanics like what is chatting. So you run both a model management agency and a chatting agency. Are those separate entities? Is it all under one umbrella? How do you manage that?

Chatstar: Yeah, it's separate entities.

Talent Management: OK, got it. And then on a revenue basis, how many clients do you have? Roughly, you don't have to give me exact numbers, but just ballpark, how many models are you managing on just the chat side? Like how many models are you actually performing chatting services for?

Chatstar: It's difficult to say the exact amount of models, but on inflow we have around 260 accounts. Now obviously there's some girls that have a free and a paid. But easily between 175 and 200 something like that.

Talent Management: Got it, okay. And then, okay, so that's a pretty large number of accounts. How many employees do you have? And assuming these are probably mostly overseas contractors that are doing the chatting.

Chatstar: So we're 70% Philippines right now. We have about 20% South America and 10% Eastern Europe. We stopped hiring from other places. We just noticed that those are the best places to really go with. And then we have over 1,000 people at this stage.

Talent Management: Okay. Holy hell, yeah, that's crazy. So, okay, that makes sense, obviously. So you're between 170 to 200, let's say 250 models. You've got over 1,000 employees that are working those accounts. Walk me through the customer experience, right? So I'm a random off the street subscriber. What happens the second that I sub to a new page?

Chatstar: This is great actually. So I think there's rules that apply in every business in general, you kind of want to get to know your customer a little bit — this is all sales. And then once you get to know them, you want to transition into the sale quickly and you want to make it as custom of an experience as possible.

The thing that's very difficult on OnlyFans is the fact that you have chatters chatting for the models. If the guy has any doubts, you're sort of stuck. You have to gaslight them into it or tell them that you don't do that or figure out ways around essentially.

Talent Management: You're creating as convincing of a fantasy as possible. That's your job.

Chatstar: Correct. So as soon as the fan gets on, I think it's important to get all the base info — where's the guy from? How old is he? Basically demographic information to gauge how much he's going to spend because the pricing is all going to depend on his socioeconomic status and his age.

If he's a 35 year old finance bro living in New York, he's probably got some cash on him. It's crazy. Ironically, truck drivers spend the most money, which is bananas.

Talent Management: Ex truck drivers and ex military were our bread and butter. Those are the — especially guys that are just collecting — I think it's like everybody who's been in the military is taking VA benefits. And so these guys just have like an extra three or four thousand bucks a month of disposable income that they're getting and they're just like sure I guess it's like free money. Why not just blow it on an OnlyFans model.

Chatstar: No, exactly. It's actually pretty wild. And so then once you kind of get that out of the way, then you start curating the experience. And to us, it's really important to boost up the authenticity score. So the way that we tend to do that is nowadays with voice audios, you can record generic voice audios, but in our scripting strategy, we have conditional voice audio.

So let me give you an example. If I was to ask you, how's your day going? You might give me an open ended answer. It's gone great. I'm going to the store picking up my dog from the vet or whatever. But if I ask you, is your day going good? Now you're forced to give me a yes or no answer. So the model can pre record a response to the yes and a response to the no. And so when you ask him that question, he's going to give you a positive or a negative answer to which you can directly respond with a positive or a negative answer essentially to what he said.

Talent Management: Got it. Got it. Sure. Makes perfect sense.

Chatstar: And so that increases the authenticity score times a hundred basically. As soon as he hears that — there's kind of doubts in his head that this is actually happening right now and he's actually talking to her — even if that was a subconscious thing that he's thinking about are immediately sort of eradicated.

Then from there you need to make him horny in some way. So sending some type of bait or starting a challenge or something that gamifies the experience or sets the stage, for example, you're coming home from the gym, take a picture of you with a duffel bag or take a short video that you're not even going to sell, a view showing the model walking through the door, putting her gym bag down, and then just being like, I'm so tired.

Talent Management: Just a little slice of life type thing, yeah. You've sold the illusion successfully. So, okay, I'm gonna back up to two things that you mentioned that I think are really important. I wanna get into KPIs and stuff later, we're gonna sort of roundabout, get back to the authenticity score thing, because I wanna understand how you actually measure chat performance, if there are quantifiable metrics that you use.

But before that, you mentioned one of the first things that you do is identify some of the socioeconomic status of the customer. And you mentioned something about pricing. So pricing is flexible here, right? So a guy that's a truck driver might pay a different price for the same piece of content as a guy who's like a finance guy in New York. Is that what you're telling me?

Chatstar: It's very difficult to gauge, but the reason why you're asking for that is just so that you know how aggressive you can upscale the pricing. So it obviously it's not the end-all be-all. You can test it out. You can start out with a very low pricing strategy, so test out a piece of content for $10, see if he unlocks it quickly, see if it's something that he's happy spending.

Because to somebody, spending $10 on a singular picture is going to be nothing. To other people, if they spend $10 on a picture, there's a negotiation process and then they get the picture and they're unhappy with it and that just kind of wastes time talking to that fan, convincing him that it's good content, sending him extra content.

So knowing more or less what he's going to be able to spend right off the bat is a super valuable time saver. And then from that point forward, instead of marking up my content of let's say $10, $25, $35, $45, I'm going to go 10, 35, 75, 100, 200, 200, 200, 200.

Talent Management: So it's just a ladder and then you plateau at that $200 price point and that's where you kind of stay.

Chatstar: Yeah, if somebody reaches that $200 price point, we're getting to that within one to two locks on any other script, essentially. If we could run a script for literally every picture and every video and every voice audio is locked for 200, even words are locked for 200, we just need to understand who that person is. The best way to understand who he is, is to get him to spend a lot of money right off the bat.

Talent Management: Of course, yeah, that makes perfect sense. So really quickly, when you say a script, you're talking about like a sort of predetermined workflow, like a preset customer experience. Would you say that's an accurate way of describing it?

Chatstar: Yeah, I mean, it's literally a script, bro. It's literally pre-written for the chatter. Copy paste this directly into the chat. You are set to succeed.

Talent Management: Yes, okay. I want to get into that process more. Obviously, I understand that concept, but I want this to be accessible to relative beginners. So we'll circle back to that in just a second.

You're talking about scaling people up this pricing ladder. You have people that are sort of time wasters. You have people that are going to haggle over a $10 piece of content versus people that are not going to blink at a $200 piece of content. What would you say the perfect customer looks like? And then what are some of the most common, maybe I would describe them as psychological archetypes that you encounter as a chatter.

Chatstar: So from a chatter's perspective looking towards fans, you got kind of the curiosity seeker, the guy who's gonna go in there, say I want anal content or whatever, and then you're gonna send him that, he's gonna buy it, good on you. There's not gonna be much negotiation going on. There's not gonna be much upselling going on. He knows what he wants. He's looking for it. And he probably even knows what's going on on OnlyFans as a whole. So he's not interested in the conversation. He just wants to see the content and satisfy the curiosity.

Talent Management: More transactional. Got it. Okay.

Chatstar: Yeah, pretty much. And then you'd have subreddits where the hook really matters. But these would be called reddit.com-r-instagram reels or whatever. And that's where you would upload those kind of pieces of content.

The next one I would say obviously is the time waster, which I'm under the line of thinking that there's no such thing. But obviously there is, but the way that I teach people is there's no such thing just because I don't want them to get in the mindset of time wasters.

Talent Management: This guy can't be sold to. Yeah.

Chatstar: Exactly. And that's exactly what it is. It's somebody who goes in there and is always like, I don't have this. I don't have money. I don't have, lots of objections. I would say the easiest — do you want to know how you would handle that essentially in the easiest way possible?

Talent Management: Lots of objection. Absolutely, yeah, please.

Chatstar: So my approach with handling quote unquote time wasters is a very empathetic approach. So as opposed to treating them like dog shit like every other basically model or chat team that's out there.

Talent Management: Just ignore them, dismiss them, whatever.

Chatstar: Ignore them, dismiss them or tell them straight up, or just like one word them. That's not the best way to do things. I think over explaining is a really good strategy. So you got to level with this guy. You got to be like hey look, we've chatted for a while. I've gotten to know you. You're a cool guy. I like talking to you, but you got to understand this is my full-time job.

I do text a few people on here. If you want to talk to me, I'm super open to talking, getting to know you better, but you gotta meet me halfway. Buy something. And I'll even give you this for half off, for 75% off. What can you spend right now? Can you do five bucks? Can you do ten bucks?

But doing a small little paragraph like that, and then carrying the conversation from that point forth, you'll notice immediately how much of a turn there is in the tone. And you're kind of killing all the sex talk, but you're making it all about business at that point. But as soon as he becomes a spender, now all of a sudden you have a little bit more time. You're just not overtly saying that in a very passive way. You're being active about explaining it to him, which I think a lot of people appreciate at the end of the day.

They do feel like they're talking to real people. And like a real person would tell you — we're guys, right? We've been to the strip club. Unless you're spending money, they don't care to talk to you. Like you could be the best looking guy in there, you could have a great personality. But they're there to make a check.

Talent Management: But they're there to make a check. Yeah.

Chatstar: Yeah, exactly. And they'll tell you like, come on, babe, if you don't have money, I don't want to talk to you. So and then the third bucket, I would say is, which is probably the best one is, is sort of the lonely, looking for a parasocial relationship of some sorts, looking for a companionship, obviously looking for more of a romantic.

Talent Management: Sure, yeah, makes sense. Okay. Like more of a romantic.

Chatstar: Yes, more of a romantic. And then those guys, it really, in my experience, it doesn't really matter how much money they make, they'll spend almost everything they have.

Talent Management: All of it. Yeah. Yeah. And those are, it's okay if you don't have exact figures, but just for somebody who's agnostic to this ecosystem as a percentage of revenue, where would you say, if you were to assign a percentage to each of those archetypes, the curiosity guy who's maybe more transactional and interested in specific pieces of content, the time waster and the romantic, what's your revenue split across those three archetypes roughly?

Chatstar: It's difficult to say with accuracy, but I would say the romantic probably makes up for 70 to 80 percent of all revenue if not more in some cases. And then obviously time wasters is very negligible like nothing. And then the menu style guys, it depends on the page really. It depends on the model. It depends on the page. It depends on how you're marketing.

But anywhere between — let me put it this way, if you get an OFTV shout out, you're gonna get a ton of menu people. If you're a kind of a YouTuber doing long form or social media stuff like you're gonna get people that fall in love. So it's from model to model, but I would say 70-30, something like that for across the board on average, if I had to guess.

Talent Management: So I mean, basically a Pareto distribution. That makes perfect sense. OK, so you've got these three archetypes. Romantics are an overwhelming majority of revenue, well over half. How are you identifying romantics as quickly as possible? Presumably, your objective as a chatter would be, how quickly can I identify somebody as a potential romantic or a potential whale? And then after you make that identification, what are you doing to deepen that connection and accelerate that process to get them across the finish line towards spending?

Chatstar: Our initial scripts, the scripts that most people go through when they first join a page, is going to be the best way to sort of categorize who a person is. And you can sort of tell by the way that they're responding but not just that but by the way that they're spending. When we send our first piece of locked content, we understand more or less who this person is on a purchase scale or on a customer scale rather.

And so once you identify that — once you find the spender within himself, he'll tell you directly. He'll either start asking questions back if you're engaging in a conversation. Or he'll tell you just send me this. At which point your work sort of lessens. But it's a very dynamic relationship. It's very difficult to say this is how you identify and curate this person.

It's more of follow the scenario, get to know this person. This is more on training chatters aspect, not so much scripting, but as far as training the chatter specifically, the way that we train them is carry normal real conversations. The cue that I give to all my chatters is imagine you're sitting on a coffee date with a friend or a girlfriend or a boyfriend. Like you wouldn't just go straight to asking them sexual questions every single time. You'd ask them normal things. You talk about Marvel movies or whatever. You talk about the new Mission Impossible. You talk about football if the guy likes football.

Talent Management: Yeah. Sure.

Chatstar: I kind of lost the plot a little bit, but yeah.

Talent Management: No, no, I think you're answering the question for sure. Okay. So you're collecting this information. You're kind of getting a sense for who the customer is. You're trying to identify whether or not they're that romantic archetype as quickly as possible. How are you compiling this data? Are you doing anything to sort of create a baseline understanding or a replicable understanding, a trainable understanding, let's say, of what the sort of signals or specific behaviors or indicators, how are you teaching your chatters how to do that?

Chatstar: The best way to categorize people is really by, at least the way we do it, in my opinion, is by spending. So you have tiers of low spender, medium spender, high spender, whale.

Talent Management: And what are the thresholds, the actual monetary dollar value thresholds for those?

Chatstar: Low spender is zero to a hundred dollars. A hundred to five hundred is medium. Five hundred to a thousand is high. And then anything above a thousand is a whale. So those are the four tiers of people. They get labeled basically. And you can if you click on the star inside of OnlyFans, certain CRM software will automatically put them in a list. You can check what list he's on. They'll tell you how much he's spending. So chatters know the categorization right off the bat.

They can also delineate between what type of time they're spending on each person and how they're catering towards their needs. Somebody who's a whale is gonna get all the attention. Somebody who is a low spender is gonna get a little bit less attention. Somebody who's in the medium to high category is gonna get — we're gonna try to walk them to the process of getting to that whale category.

So that's how our training is sort of segmented into those different categories of people. But the way that we train for the most part isn't so much in categorically hyper analyzing who like what bucket each customer fits in. We try to provide an experience for every customer from every price range.

And so I feel like if you can accomplish giving a whale a very similar experience as somebody who's a low spender, then both of those customers to me at least — let's say not on a business level, but to me in terms of quality are equally as important. Because it's reputation, it's a subscription price. It's recurring revenue that you're also — it's also like, you don't know, like that guy could fucking get a new job tomorrow or he could win the lottery or he could come get an inheritance and he comes in there and starts spending all his fucking money on you while you have him.

You owe it to your model essentially, to not treat her brand and her fans like shit on any level. And so you have to standardize I think the quality for the most part. Once you bucket and segment out the people at that point, the experience slightly varies. But it's not a huge discrepancy, especially at our scale. We don't get that custom with it.

Talent Management: Sure, yeah, makes sense. But you've standardized the procedure, but you've done it in such a way that it still has that authentic feel. You're still successfully selling that fantasy. You're just doing it in a scalable way.

Chatstar: Yeah, exactly.

Talent Management: So, okay, and that brings me to kind of my last question vis-a-vis customer psychology, which is the retention piece, right? What is the average life cycle of a customer? Obviously, like it seems obvious to me that your low spenders, you'll maybe have a whole cohort of people who only stick around for that first month and then fall off. What does the retention piece look like? And then what are your strategies around retention?

Chatstar: So in terms of it, it also depends on how obsessed the person is. It's the name of the game is really getting them addicted to the content, I think that's really important, but also getting them addicted to the experience or even the conversation itself.

The average customer, I would say spends anywhere from two to three months on a page. That's my general analysis and at least the data that we've compiled. Somebody who's in the whale category tends to stay a little longer, like eight months, maybe a year, something like that, maybe longer, depending on the model herself or how well he's been taken care of on the chat side. And then on the lower end, it's a one month subscribe, fall off, you're going to run into that.

Talent Management: Yep, same for us.

Chatstar: So let's talk about retention in two separate ways. Let's talk about it from a recapture perspective and let's talk about it from a purely I have a fan on the page I'm trying to keep him as long as possible.

So from a recapture perspective, it's super important to utilize as much tools and automations as your CRM provides you or even if you don't do CRM, do it manually. So since we are talking on a very base level, have your expired fans a some type of a recapture campaign like a free trial link or even a discounted link with some type of value add.

Give them a free video or offer them a free video if they resubscribe or have their model customize a video specifically for expired fans where she's literally doing a five minute video just vlogging around her house and talking shit, just showing her personality. Don't even make it necessarily sexual. Have her wear something a little bit more revealing and make it a personal experience because I think a lot of people that fall off, they lose on the personal component of the girl.

So maybe adding a little bit of personality back into the recapture campaign is going to go a long way outside of just giving them a deal. And then obviously encouraging tons of people to do a to turn on their renew on. So a lot of times the way we'll do that is after a purchase, after a certain conversation, specifically after a purchase, we notice whether or not they have their renew on.

And then our aftercare is asking them to turn their renew on.

Talent Management: Got it. I like that. Okay. So you're just sort of seamlessly working into the experience. Like, hey, I had a really great time with you. I noticed that your renew is off.

Chatstar: Exactly. By the way, I just so happen to notice you got your renew off. Come on, just do it for me. What? Why would you — we just had such a nice time. Why would you want to see me again? I guess in some ways you really are treating it sort of like a virtual date. That's an interesting insight actually.

Talent Management: Yeah, it's... No, I was gonna say, it's difficult to gauge stuff like that... We're selling the most authentic-feeling fantasy of a human interaction, and those little things do kind of move the needle in some cases, for sure.

Chatstar: For sure in some cases for sure. So it's good that we're towards the end of the conversation anyway. So I'm paying attention. I'm there as soon as anybody releases it. The way that I think about myself and this is maybe delusional confidence that I have in my own abilities is that if it pops out, I will be so quick to adapt that basically the 1% will always smoke everybody else. And I consider myself at this stage to be in the 1%.

So in terms of thinking ahead of the game, there's obviously things that we're working on like AI models from a content side. Am I concerned that the chatting business as a whole is gonna disappear? Not anytime soon. And if it does, you're still gonna need strategists and people behind what it's saying, how it's saying it. So I'm not so concerned, really, for the time being. I am not — that's the best way to put it.

Talent Management: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like it's not, you don't feel like it's an immediate, it's not putting you out of business tomorrow, but it's something that you're, you're keeping tabs on and maintaining at least a low level awareness of.

Chatstar: For sure. What do you think? I'm very interested from someone with a technical background.

Talent Management: So there's already companies like Super Creator. They just released their integrated chat bot. It's integrated directly into their CRM. I think I've used it. I was pretty impressed with it in terms of its ability to obviously maintain thousands of conversations simultaneously, response time. It's actually surprisingly context sensitive. So it's having really realistic, real feeling conversations with customers.

But precisely to your point, I don't think it's quite there on the sell side yet. And also, the page that I tested it on transparently, I think it's a phenomenal product. The page that I tested on was not something that I typically sell a ton of PPV on to begin with. It's just a free page that I happen to have some content on. And it certainly, it did sell content, but probably not as much as having a team of two or three chatters on the page might have.

So there's that element. So I think you're correct in that it's not an immediate threat in terms of maybe next 12 months. But I think 24 months out, you're probably looking at some really, really compelling products in that domain.

From my end of the business, from the organic social marketing side of the business, I think the biggest threat is actually to the entire OnlyFans ecosystem. And it is these AI companion products. Are you familiar with that? You know what I'm talking about.

Chatstar: I've heard of it, but you're gonna have to tell me what it actually is.

Talent Management: Okay, so essentially these products are — imagine that you as a subscriber to OnlyFans, your customer experience on OnlyFans is you see a model that you think you might like, you subscribe to the page, you chat with the model, you get a few responses, you kind of feel out like, okay, what's this page all about? What kind of content does she sell? How much am I paying?

These AI companion products, there's two different ways that they present. There's the Twitter style approach of they are singular, persistent characters that you have an ongoing relationship. So that's more deep intimate that would be more appealing perhaps to the romantic archetype that we were talking about earlier.

And then the other side of it is you basically have, imagine if you subscribe to OnlyFans, but you got access to every single model's page. That's thousands and thousands of characters and scenarios. So let's say today you want to have like an innocent conversation with an 18 year old cat girl, you can go do that. Or you want to get fucked in the ass by a tentacle monster, you can do that.

So these products are — I think going to be the biggest threat to OnlyFans in that it seems to me like it's a superior customer experience in virtually every measurable way besides the fact that you're not interacting with a real human being. But to what we were just talking about, you're not interacting with the person that you think you're interacting with on OnlyFans anyway.

So these products are basically unlimited access to whatever characters and scenarios that you want. They have meaningful context sensitive conversations. You drop into a scenario, it's like kind of a choose your own adventure type thing, but they're all powered by LLM. So you're having realistic feeling conversations with them. And I think that to the average adult product consumer, the average digital intimacy product consumer, what's hotter than anything else? What is the one thing, the primary sexual drive? It is novelty, right?

There's nothing more exciting than a new girl, something new, some new experience or something that you haven't experienced before. That sexual novelty is how you sort of break through the diminishing returns effect. You think about you're sitting on Instagram, you're scrolling through the longer you scroll through on Instagram, the more interesting and unexpected an individual reel is going to have to be to excite you, to give you any kind of feeling of satisfaction.

Well, these are basically character marketplaces where you have infinite novelty and infinite variety, and there's constantly new things that are coming out. You can generate images and video on demand. They respond instantly. You can reach them 24-7. And by the way, they live in your pocket.

So I think as those products become more sophisticated, that's going to be a huge threat to the OnlyFans ecosystem. And that's where I'm actually investing a lot of my time these days.

Chatstar: Interesting. You know, maybe — I imagine we're around the same age. I'm a millennial too. So to me, I could see a very technical something or other, being an artist myself and creating art and painstakingly editing for days or weeks or hours and also appreciating art, there's a certain type of humanity behind it.

Now I don't wanna say that what we're doing here is art on any measure of the imagination. But I do think the human connection aspect of it is very difficult to be replaced. There's that uncanny valley or that — could you make a lot of money doing this? Absolutely. I think there's going to be some people out here that walk away with millions, especially if they're early and innovative and creative enough.

But to me, at least the way that I would like to approach things is I'm a huge proponent in media in general, being able to create real content with real people.

Talent Management: A curated experience. Yes.

Chatstar: Curated exactly. And I'm not talking about OF stuff. I'm talking about long form. I'm talking about real — I'm talking about spin-offs. I'm talking about you know merged to go along with it. Look at Playboy. Playboy is not cool anymore. But exactly, right? And content is the backbone of all of that.

And so for me, I'm much more interested in creating real original content. That's never going away, in my opinion, no matter what happens to OnlyFans.

Talent Management: Yes. I agree 100 percent.

Chatstar: And so that's kind of where I'm putting most of my eggs. I can sit here and try to get technical with the AI stuff. And I can try to anticipate the next curve that tech is going to throw at me. Unless I'm — I'm not going to be the owner of the next OnlyFans. That's just not my lane. And so I don't even — I'm better off not even thinking about it until it pops up. And once it pops up, I will create a monster business behind it because I'll position with all these different verticals that I'm doing.

Talent Management: Yes, I feel very much the same way in that my primary interest at this point in my life is I want to work on things that I'm passionate about. I've always loved film. I've always wanted to be a filmmaker and OnlyFans, I'll be incredibly grateful forever to this industry in addition to some other previous endeavors. But I'm now at a point in my life where I can independently finance a filmmaking career. So I have more than enough runway to burn money for the next five years and still be A-OK for the rest of my life.

Chatstar: Let's talk after this, because I think you have more in common than you actually have.

Talent Management: Yes, definitely. Okay. All right. Let's go ahead and close things off. I have one last question. This is something that I asked everybody. What is the most valuable thing that you've learned thus far? You talked earlier in the podcast about, you spent 10 years kind of spinning your wheels, you've made a lot of mistakes. What is the most valuable thing that you've learned thus far in your entrepreneurial journey that you want to share with the audience?

Chatstar: Yeah. Man, start as early as you possibly can. Literally don't debate it. Start right now and get all the mistakes out of the way quickly. I wish I would have taken myself more seriously and not been so concerned about the FOMO in life because right now I'd be sitting on a lot more money.

And I'd probably be living maybe a quieter or chiller life, and I'm still in the grind mode, not that that's a bad thing. I think that gives me a lot of purpose and I'm definitely satisfied in life. But I think if you're debating starting something or attempting it, even start right now.

And I want to give some advice to people that are either jumping into this industry or worried about how to set it up the right way. After working with a lot of agencies and seeing tons of scams out there, I would say spend a good amount of time figuring out how to do your marketing, especially if you're focused on organic. Watch Milki's videos, learn as much as you can about the creative process and really create a solid product.

If you need a test run subject, find a girl who's going to work alongside with you as you learn and then go and sell it to everybody else. Don't go — don't start an agency by creating a cool website and a nice Instagram and ripping a bunch of content offline then selling the world to these girls and then thinking that I as the chat agency owner or some guy that's gonna sell your Twitter promo is gonna solve it.

There's enough of you out there. Stop it. Create a real fucking business here. Don't treat it like a game. Work backwards, like start — create something real and then go and offer it to people. Because I think that these girls that I talk to on a regular basis are absolutely burned by people who don't have all their cards in order before they go and they sell them the service.

And so yeah, start now, do that first and then you'll be rich and you'll be rich for longer because you might hit a bag now, but it's all going to crumble to the ground unless you have everything in order from the get-go, essentially.

Talent Management: Yep, 100%. Yes, I absolutely love that. I agree 100%. When I started as an OFM, I had no idea what I was doing. I took 10%. I said, look, I'm gonna help you establish this as a — you clearly have a lot of potential with my first model. You clearly have a lot of potential. I don't think you're earning as much as you could. I have a business background. I'm going to help you out with this, but I have no fucking clue what I'm doing. I'm going to take a very small percentage of your income and we're going to learn how to do this together.

And as I establish myself and as I develop those skills and turn Milki into a multimillion dollar agency, then I started asking for more. It's if you develop that, if you spend the time to develop that relationship with your early models and this is, we're talking about OFM, but this applies to any business. Exactly, build up the skills, build something real. Don't — there's enough scammers and fraudsters and people selling coaching and courses on shit they don't understand.

If you take the time and actually invest in yourself and build something real, you are going to be wealthier in the long run. So I love that. That's a fantastic thing to end on.

Thank you so much for your time. If you would like to tell the audience one more time who you are, where they can find you if they are interested in your services.

Chatstar: Thank you for having me. My name is Chatstar. I'll just make it easy for everybody. You can click the link in the description if you're interested or if you need any advice. I'm not out here to sell you on anything. If you want to talk just on agency to agency, you can ask for some advice.

If you want services, I can talk more in depth about specifically what we offer. But I'm very happy that I at least got to impart some knowledge to people, some free advice for the most part. I'm happy that all this experience is something that maybe somebody can learn from.

Thanks for giving me a platform and asking good questions, man. I think you're an absolute killer. I've known of you for a while. And the way that you communicate, I think you're clearly extremely intelligent. I think you're going to end up being very, very successful in this industry long term. So keep up what you're doing with the YouTube channel, too. I'm excited to see the progression.

Talent Management: We've got some good stuff in the pipe for sure. Well, thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it.

Chatstar: Well, thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it.

Talent Management: Likewise, thank you for all the kind words, thank you for your time, and I'm sure we'll talk again soon.