This comprehensive transcript combines two in-depth conversations with Nicolai Luther and Ollie McKinlay, founders of the Butter platform. Episode 28 features a detailed technical walkthrough of their social media management and repurposing engine. Episode 30 explores their broader vision for solving organic growth and attribution challenges across the creator economy.

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Episode 28: Butter Platform Technical Walkthrough

Francis: Alright, so welcome back, Ollie and Nick. Today we are going to be doing a walkthrough of the Butter platform. I'm excited to see what you guys have got. I'm sure the viewers are going to be interested too. So ready whenever you are.

Ollie: Perfect, we'll jump straight in. So let me just go ahead and share my screen. Okay, can you guys see this?

Francis: Yes.

Ollie: Perfect. Okay, so obviously this is the website and then kind of up here, sign in, sign up. You can go through here, read more about Butter, but we'll just jump straight in. Obviously it's a new user. You're just gonna go up here to sign up. Once you click sign up, you're now taken to create an account. So in here, Milki, we will set one up for you. So let's just do that. Enter your email... to the next step. What do you want your password to be for now?

Francis: We can do something stupid. ABC1234 or whatever.

Ollie: ABC1234! Yeah, so ABC1234. And then you're gonna sign up. And then once you've signed up, you're now going to kind of get this onboarding process. The reason that we're gonna put people through this is just so they have a bit more of an understanding and kind of hold your hand to the point where you're actually ready to use Butter.

So for you, Francis, it's an agency or team. You're gonna click continue, then select your industry. Obviously Butter isn't just tied to OFM, but we'll go down here and click adult content and then continue. So now this is kind of the next step. So obviously with Butter, and we spoke about having the do it yourself and the done for you service, you kind of choose from here which one you want, but it will still take you down the same process of creating your client.

So we're just gonna go to the all in one CRM workspace. From there, select your team size. So this obviously will link back later on to how many VAs have you got using Butter to post on Instagram. So for now, we'll just go with two to five. And then create your first client. So this is a really important part because a lot of what we have on Butter, you can't set up without having a client set up.

So that means if you're trying to buy something in the marketplace, if it's 24/7 TikTok live, you need to attach it to a client that you have on Butter for it to be processed. So this is the most important stuff. So what name do you wanna go with for your first client? We'll just set you up. Should we just set up Intimate Underworld?

Francis: Let's do it, yeah.

Ollie: And then you have a hundred percent company percentage. So we'll click continue. So now what you'll see, everything's set up. You click finish and you will now be into actually seeing what Butter is. You now have kind of a video if you want to watch in more detail where it's myself just on a loom going through explaining things in a bit more detail, each actual section, the clients tab, the marketplace, the inbox, then obviously upgrading the done for you, the do it yourself. Everything's covered in this initial onboarding video. But for now, we won't watch that.

The Dashboard and Analytics

Ollie: Okay, so now you're actually into the software. This is your dashboard. If you wanna connect to your OnlyFans account, you can do that later on with your clients. So that's where you're able to see total revenue, monetization ratio, conversion. You'll see a nice graph here as well when it pops up when you've actually connected to see the views that you're bringing in for each model. Then over here, what you'll see is you also see the ROI and the average revenue per user.

Another really nice part, remember just at the beginning there we were talking about company percentage. The reason that we have that input there is so we can actually see the agency revenue. A lot of times that I speak to agency owners, they might be doing 100K a month, but they think they're making 100K a month, but in reality, they're not because of all the other added percentage back to the model, then you're giving percentage to the chat team, et cetera, et cetera. So this just allows you to actually see how much you're genuinely making.

But let's jump straight into it. So then if we go to the Clients tab. From here, this is where you can run your whole operation. Obviously you can see here, we've got the Intimate Underworld. Now to go ahead and actually start the process of uploading content and connecting an account, this is what we call the client card. But now we need to go inside the actual client card itself by just clicking view. And now this is kind of your main hub for running this client. Obviously here you can connect your Instagram accounts, you have your content up here, and then you have your services tab, but there's no orders right now.

Francis: And what platforms do you guys have active right now? It looks like Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and X.

Ollie: Yeah, so right now it's Instagram. We do have TikTok in beta testing with some clients. And then obviously in the marketplace that we'll go to a little bit later on, we have other service providers in there. So I think I mentioned the 24/7 TikTok live. We've used that service ourselves. So all of the service providers inside the marketplace have been used by us before. So that's just something that we should kind of mention because there's such a stigma around buying services on Telegram in the OFM industry where you'll go on there, you'll spend $300 and you'll then get blocked as soon as you sent the money. And it's kind of, they're great, I've wasted another $300 on a service I'm never gonna get. So we're trying to eradicate that issue, especially for newcomers, but also people that have been around in the space. Because the amount of people that will sign up to Butter and go, wait, I can buy accounts from you guys as well. It's like everything in the marketplace we've used before and continue to use — vetted service providers.

Francis: Yeah. That's incredible. The one-stop shop element of this I find really intriguing. So I'm definitely looking forward to the marketplace section.

Ollie: Yeah, as we said last time, it's one of those things that say like you have Inflo and you have Butter. So we don't want people having to go onto Telegram, scroll through endless Telegram chats to find one guy and hope it works. It's you can just come to Butter, go to the marketplace, get what you need. And it's working within 24 hours.

Account Connection and Setup

Ollie: But yeah, let's connect an Instagram account to start with. So I actually found one for you. So this is the connecting account stage right here. You're gonna put the username, the platform. So the username of this account that I found was underworld underscore. And then the social platform is obviously Instagram, the account role, primary backup. So we have two different ways that we run it. A primary account is obviously something that you're posting on less frequently and you're not putting the same content out there as much. So the repurpose engine isn't doing as much. That's kind of, it's a different strategy to just the mass posting, high frequency and actual growth strategy that we run with backups.

But for now, we're just gonna go ahead and click backup. Account bio, obviously if you're doing the done for you, you will let us know the bio, you'll give us the tracking link and we sort everything else out on the backend. If you're doing it yourself, obviously you will have the Instagram account on your phone. So you might already have the bio set up. But what I would say is to just always have them the same. So even if you've got the account before and you're just connecting it onto Butter, updating this bio with what you've already got on Instagram, it may seem tedious, but just so everything links up so there's when you're on Butter, you don't have to think twice, you know what it is, you know what account.

For now, obviously, just because this account isn't even yours, we're just showing a demo. We're just gonna leave this blank tracking link. You put your juicy.bio in there, cross-promo, and then daily marketing costs. This is another one that you can kind of see. This will allow you to judge your CPMs. So if you're doing done for you, it's $2 a day. That's your daily marketing cost. If you're doing the do it yourself, it obviously becomes much lower. But for now, we'll just jump in, we'll click save.

And then once we click save, you'll see down here, it's connecting the account and the account is now connected. So then yeah, this is the account right here. We won't go into it just yet because we now need to upload the content, but this is kind of where you're able to see what your posting goal is, how much your daily cost is and the average views for this one account. Then obviously you can see the total media views and then what your CPM is. And then we'll come back to this shortly, but let's now jump into the content section.

Content Upload and Management

Francis: So I want to pause here for just one second. So explain to me what's about to happen, right? We're going to upload content in this folder, and then what is Butter actually doing with it?

Ollie: Okay, so when we're uploading the content, the content's being stored on Butter. The key thing for that is we then need to link it to accounts because if we don't link the content to accounts, the repurpose engine isn't actually being told, okay, we need to repurpose this video for this account and then we need to track it. So essentially, for the actual process to track everything, repurpose everything, all of the content needs to be stored on Butter.

We used to do it on an account by account basis, but now we've changed that to where you've just got one place where you can view all your content and it just made it so much more simple for us. Then you can create folders. So let's say you're running 20 accounts and on 10 of them, you've got specific types of content and on 10 others, you've got a different type of content. You can split it up folder to folder. One folder could be 10 accounts of content, the other folder could be the other 10 accounts. So yeah, it's just, it's way more organized.

You can then kind of dive in and actually select different pieces of content. And you do need to change a few things depending on your setup. But we'll get into that when we actually have the content uploaded. But to upload the content, it's really, really simple. It's just an upload button from here. This is kind of the main thing. The videos for reels, we're gonna go ahead and click video and then you can just click here. But then we brought this and we've obviously already got this set up. So Milki demo short form content. And what I like to do when I upload them is I number them one to 20. Right now you can only upload 20 in one go. So what I'll do is like label them one to 20. Let's say I'm uploading 30 pieces of content. I'll know that one to 20 has been done and then 21 to 30 needs to be uploaded next. Rather than just having like loads of random letters essentially as the name.

Francis: Okay. That makes perfect sense.

Ollie: So then we'll go ahead, we'll click open. And now you're just gonna go ahead and click create. So once this is done, you'll get a green tick, which will show that it's been uploaded. And then it will also show up here in the actual content section itself. So give that a minute. Obviously the more you do, the longer it takes, but it doesn't take awfully long at all.

But then once this is done, we'll upload a slideshow as well. We just call it slideshow instead of carousel, but a slideshow is a carousel for us. So you need to upload them separately. The reason for that is when we're generating, we're generating two different things because we're generating either a carousel or either a reel.

But now you can see here that you've got your four short form pieces of content that will now be attached to accounts. Just to run through a few things up here, we have a little reel like you can kind of see that's the action clipboard sort of thing that essentially is telling you it's a video and then when we upload the slideshow it's a different symbol.

The Repurpose Engine

Francis: So give me a quick breakdown on the repurpose engine. What is it actually doing to these pieces of content? How many iterations is it going over? And what are the things that it can and cannot do?

Ollie: So when we're putting stuff through the actual repurpose engine, there's a whole bunch of different things that it's doing. It's not just wiping the metadata. It's now giving you unique pieces of content. One of the ways that we do that is the text overlays that we have built into Butter. In here, you can add your own text overlays. So for example, a good text overlay for something like this, stop watching this, stop and watch this if you do OFM. And we're gonna say, and then what we're gonna do is we're going to assign it to an account. So Instagram and then obviously the only account that we have attached.

So what that's now doing is it's telling the backend of Butter, any piece of content that's in the content library that's also linked to this same account with text overlays enabled, it's telling Butter, it's telling the repurpose engine to put this text overlay on the video like that. So when it does go through the repurpose engine, this will be added to the videos. And that's one way that we're able to go without getting replicated content issues.

Small changes it does, it doesn't massively change the video. There's a few things obviously we can't say exactly how it works otherwise we wouldn't be in business but there's a few small changes that it makes that allow us to get past that replicated content issue. But the text overlays is one of those it's very important to use but you'll see here now that I've got text overlays on a video like this wouldn't get it but these three still would just because they're still enabled. Does that make a bit of sense?

Francis: Got it. Makes perfect sense.

Ollie: Okay, perfect. So now let's upload a carousel. As I said, carousels are just called slideshows in Butter. From here, you'll click here. Let's go into the demo pics and we're gonna do that. So we're gonna highlight two. So in your carousels, when you're uploading, you need to upload the carousel in the order that you would like it or with the actual content that you want in. So as you saw here, this is one carousel. I've got two pictures and that will be in a carousel. If I have six pictures in a video, I should have six pictures in a video in this exact same part in my Finder on my MacBook. Does that make sense?

Francis: Yep.

Ollie: Perfect. So then from here, I'm going to go ahead and click Create and that will upload much quicker than the videos. Okay, perfect. So now remember how I said you've kind of got this action board for your videos and your reels. For this one, you've kind of just got a TV looking screen or a laptop screen that just shows you it's a carousel. And then obviously, I now click on view, you'll be able to see there's one of two. So this will be the first picture that's generated. And then this will be the second picture that's generated. If you have a video, that's when you can kind of keep clicking through. But that's pretty much the uploading content stage.

The next part of this now is assigning the content to the account that you want it to be posted on. So once again, you go back in here and you just click link account. Account type, Instagram, and then obviously just the one account for us right now. And we're gonna click link. Now what that means is in a second when we go back to that account, we'll be able to generate content for that account and we'll only generate this video. Obviously if we connect all four, it will generate variations of those four pieces of content.

And then just for the purpose of this, let's link this as well. Instagram, select account. Okay, perfect. So now that those have been linked to the account. We'll be able to go back and now if we actually click into view, this is now going into the account level. So this is obviously your client level and now we're going to go into the account level. So this is where you'll do a lot of tinkering, a lot of testing and kind of you're able to see.

So the bio is up here. If you want to change the bio, it will be in the bio request and then the links, obviously no links added. But in here, we now have the content ready to post section and we have these two pieces of content. So they're active for this account. And you've got obviously the content ready to post. The next thing that we need to do just quickly is touch on the upgrading part. So obviously as we've connected this one account, Nick, do you mind just going in the backend and upgrading Intimate Underworld for me?

Nicolai: Yeah, it's already upgraded. You can go ahead and edit the accounts right now. Just go ahead and edit the accounts.

Setting Posting Goals and Content Generation

Ollie: Let me just, okay, so I can, okay, perfect. So now the next thing that we need to do before we can actually start generating content is we need to decide our posting goal. So without deciding posting goal, we're not gonna be able to decide how many posts we're actually putting out there. So the posting goal and slideshow posting goal. Obviously we have carousels and reels right now. So the posting goal for reels, let's just do two for simplicity and then slideshow one. And then we'll...

Francis: So this is two per day.

Ollie: Yeah, that's two per day. So this is just the way that we're able to track how many posts are going out. We have people posting 20 times a day, seeing really good results. So just purely for the base of the demo, we'll just do two and one. And then we're going to say.

Nicolai: Yeah, since you probably only have, sorry to interrupt, since you only have one reel linked to you, you should probably just put it to one, right?

Ollie: Yeah, let me put it to one. Okay, so now you'll see here that this has now changed. You'll see on the posting goal, we need to go back onto clients. One per day and then we can click in the view. And now what you'll see is we do have this generate button and we have video, story, image and slideshow. So in the generate video section, we'll go in here, we'll click video, number of posts, one, and then we will just click generate. This may take a little bit of time as it's generating a whole new post for you, but then once it's done, it will pop up in that generate content section. But for now, we will just go back and it should appear there soon.

The Posting Process

Francis: Got it. So while we're waiting, so I just want to be clear here. So what happens after this thing is generated? Does Butter post it for you? Is the onus of the posting still on the user? How does this all work?

Ollie: Yeah, so if you're doing the done for you service, we will handle all the posting for you. It's all handled by us. However, if you're doing it yourself, you will just have the thumbnail here and the post button at the bottom. Obviously you then as the user, you do need to go ahead and post it. But the way that we've got it down and we've, I might show you, I don't know if I showed you the video last time of how we're able to post three times in under a minute. We have a posting mechanism where essentially, you'll click post on the video and then from there you'll download the content and you'll have a pop-up at the bottom that takes you straight to Instagram and when you're straight on Instagram from there it will literally just be next and share. So we've got the ability to post three times in under a minute for one account down just because it's a no-nonsense it's not kind of a guessing game of what piece of content do I need to upload no it's all handled all you or your VA needs to do is simply click three buttons.

Francis: Okay, and that can be done on Instagram through the browser on a desktop or laptop?

Ollie: We just do posting on phones to see the best results. So all of our posting is done on the phone. You can add the phone to your lock screen. So it acts like an actual app. Let me see if I can show you quickly in here what I mean. Yeah, so this video here will best explain it. So this is obviously on an Android. It's very, very simple. It's probably the easiest system that we've got for posting right now. But let me go ahead, jump to here.

Francis: Got it, okay.

Nicolai: But yeah, posting is simply is essentially as fast as your data is, right? So if you have slow data, it's going to take, but if you have fast data, you can get three posts out within 15 seconds.

Francis: Okay, I see. But all of this happens directly through the web app. It just links you directly to the Instagram post and then it's already got the bio, or the, does it auto-populate the caption, assuming that you have a caption for it prior, or how does that work? Incredible. Okay, so this is, yeah, this is literally, you were not kidding, it's three clicks. This is very cool.

Nicolai: Yes. Yes.

Ollie: Yeah, it's three clicks and as you can see, that's three posts in under a minute. So we've got it to a point.

Nicolai: And then. Yeah, whenever you post, you just click the sync button and our system automatically knows exactly what was posted. It attributes exactly how many times it was posted. So now that you know the posting, if you can go and take a look at the screenshot I sent you, Ollie, so you could see. They go to the drive or on WhatsApp. Either is fine.

Ollie: on WhatsApp? What have you sent me this week?

Nicolai: Yeah. So you can go ahead and see that. So this is what it looks like on the account on the content tab. Right. So you could see how many times it's been posted, how many views, what's the average view. Right. So this is essentially.

Analytics and Performance Tracking

Francis: Got it. So it's also an analytics dashboard. It's a repurpose engine. It's an analytics dashboard. It allows you to schedule, not schedule, but you're three clicks away on the web app from actually posting directly on the platform. You guys have built something very cool here.

Nicolai: Thank you, brother. And not just that, we repurpose based on performance. So we prioritize new content first, and then we prioritize highest performing content next. So we basically, everything is done in the back end, so we're able to track automatically how many times that content's been posting, what's the average views of all, and then it'll basically generate that many times based on the performance of the content.

Francis: Got it, okay, very cool. I'm excited to actually get into that. We're gonna be launching short form probably in December for Intimate Underworld. I will 100% be using Butter for, at the very least, just to give it a shot. But I mean, this might be how we manage everything, at least for Instagram posting, because this seems incredible.

Nicolai: Absolutely, but you could see on this video. We obviously didn't turn off overlays and mirroring on this one, right? So you're gonna get double overlays, but you can see that the overlay we added is automatically there for example.

Francis: Right. Yeah. And I mean, that's just a, that comes down to the user, just be aware of the limitations of the platform. Obviously it's not going to be able to remove text if you already have text embedded in the video.

Ollie: Yeah, yeah.

Nicolai: But we're working, we're constantly working on the repurpose engine. I think we can get it down to where it'll literally be a fresh, exact new piece of content when we add the AI layer. But that's the really costly thing. It's honestly right now we're beating detection very well — we don't get any issues with that. I could also show, you could also show the way we attribute. If you go to the edit section, Ollie, you could also see how we attribute tracking links.

Ollie: Yeah, exactly.

Francis: I mean, that's a huge deal.

Ollie: What, the whole account you want me to? yeah.

Nicolai: For example, yeah. But we are working on attribution better. So just say you have your tracking links already. And on OnlyFans, say you're an OnlyFans client. So you could essentially assign the tracking links to your account. You could see exactly how many clicks, how much revenue, all that stuff that account generated. So it helps if you have 100 accounts, right? You need to scale. You'll be able to properly scale because you know what your ROI is, you know how much you're spending every day, you know how much the account is generating you. I don't know if that makes sense, but.

Francis: It makes perfect sense and it's all in one place. I mean, this is the beauty obviously — so if you do everything on the social media side for even not even just for attribution, but for performance measurement all that has to basically be done natively or if you're using a scheduler like Metricool. There's a basic analytics dashboard, but it's not really that robust or informative. So a tool like this that is not only giving you an all-in-one dashboard for all of the metrics that Instagram is tracking natively, but then on top of that is showing you your best performers and then automatically repurposing your best performers. This is a game changer. Really. And by the way, the UI is very slick. Everything that you've shown me so far, it seems to move very quickly. The upload process for videos is very fast. Everything's smooth. There's no, this is a live demo and I haven't seen any bugs. Super impressive stuff guys. I mean, really, really, really, really cool stuff.

The OnlyFans Integration

Nicolai: Thank you, brother. I think this is, I mean, I don't know, Ollie, maybe we can show them the OF dashboard too. I don't know if you're comfortable with that, but it's up to you, right? We don't have to get into it if you don't want, Ollie, it's up to you. But yeah, we have a lot of stuff built in.

Ollie: You just have to log in. Yeah, let me log in in a second. Let me generate the slideshow and just show how you can kind of go between the two. Cause obviously if you generate a carousel, it's not in the same place. So you just go generate slideshow one generate. And then from here, yeah, now what you'll see is in the actual slideshow tab on content ready to post, you have the exact same thing. So all you would do once again is post, download, next, share, and then you have a slideshow going out.

The reason that we brought that in is to just increase conversions. If your account is just reel, reel, reel, reel, reel. Guys will understand and say, okay, this isn't actually a genuinely authentic account. So if we now mix in the slideshows with stories and reels, your conversion rates will go up. You'll still be getting good views, but the conversion rates will go up. So that's now one big aspect of what we've introduced. But that is really the simplest way to set up the account. So that's everything that you need. Obviously you now need to connect more content to the actual account. And then that's when the posting can start. Have I missed anything there, Nick?

Nicolai: Yeah, on this section below, you could essentially, if you don't want to wait for the repurpose engine to figure out what your winning content is, you could essentially turn it off like meta ads, right? Like turning off non performing content, right? So if you want to increase your growth and force it to where you're not waiting on Butter to figure out what your winner is, you could just go inside on the account level and just turn off whatever's not performing. So we usually turn off something that's like, say your account is getting 100,000 views per reel average, but you have 10 videos that get 20,000 views average. Obviously, I'm not going to leave those on, right?

Francis: And how long, what's the lag time between, when will Butter recognize that versus when you're able to assess that as a human being?

Nicolai: It just depends how many posts you have going out, right? So if you have a hundred stuff loaded and you're only posting one a day, then it's going to take forever, right? But if you have, I don't know, 20 reels posted and you're posting 20 times a day per account, then it'll figure it out probably by day four, right? So it's like, we don't really advise people to upload a bunch of content cause you're never going to figure out what's the proven winning content.

Francis: Got it, makes perfect sense.

Ollie: Yeah.

Nicolai: We usually don't like to turn off content unless it's been posted at least six seven times and then it's okay. It's been posted seven times. Let's turn it off. It's not hitting, you know? Yeah.

Francis: Yeah, that makes, that makes. Yeah, yeah. And then one more question for the slideshows. Does the repurpose engine also work on still images or what's the strategy there?

Nicolai: Yeah, on slideshows, we're only removing metadata. Yeah, so we don't have any visual repurposing going on. But we pass detection.

Francis: Okay. I feel like that's less, you're not typically reposting carousels a bunch of times, that makes sense. Unless you're posting it multiple times across different accounts, in which case the metadata removal obviously is super useful, but I would never repost the same carousel on an account multiple times, so that seems reasonable.

Ollie: Yeah. And I think the other thing on that point as well as they're, we're all in the space. We all know the clients that you work with, they take a lot of pictures, whether or not they do the reels that you want them to do. They are still taking pictures that you can use.

Francis: Yeah, pictures are never an issue. Yeah, there's no shortage there.

Ollie: Exactly. So the aspect of not reposting the same carousel, I understand that part because the clients that I work with, yeah, they might not do the reel sometimes, but they're always taking pictures and posting carousels. So I don't think that's necessarily one of the issues.

Nicolai: But my clients are lazy, so I'm a savage, you know? I'm a savage. As long as it's still getting reviewed, as long as the post is still performing, I'll hack the algorithm. That's basically what I'm, I'm like a growth hacker essentially is what we're doing.

Future Development and AI Integration

Francis: Yeah, so okay a couple of questions before we move on to the next section. AI, are you guys looking at implementing something that I think would obviously be incredibly powerful here is if you had a native auto caption tool? Something like have you guys familiar with Opus Pro?

Nicolai: Correct, yes, like short long form to short form.

Francis: Yeah, that's long form to short form, but their long form to short form does automatic captioning. So basically, I upload a YouTube video, right? I don't have somebody that's like, I don't have a clipper right now. So when I upload a new YouTube video, that YouTube video automatically gets sent over to Opus Pro, and then Opus Pro chops it into, you know, between 20 and 40 pieces of short form content. And then I can automatically schedule those to go to YouTube shorts. But it does all of the captioning, I mean, I'm gonna be super clear. They're not good clips. Most of my short form stuff does not perform well. It's just there so that I have that, so that I'm building that shorts presence and it does drive some marginal traffic to long form. It's never going to be better than if I actually went and took the time to make good short form content myself. But for a tool like this, it seems like an auto caption as part of the repurpose engine where you're basically not only automatically capturing the content, but running it through multiple different caption types.

Ollie: Yeah.

Francis: In addition to clearing and changing metadata that seems like it would be something really powerful. Is that something that you guys have thought about?

Nicolai: Yeah. So there's so many ways we can go around it, right? We want to just mainly focus on mass distribution, right? So we're like, we were like, you know, should we have an editor like CapCut where we have, we give users functionality to edit within the platform as well. And it's just, there's so much we could do, but we want to get distribution down first. But yeah, there's unlimited things we could do. We want to also do AI where we're making actual visual changes that are non-noticeable to the reels, for example. There's so many ways we can go. We're just focusing right now on releasing the next platforms, making sure that distribution is perfect.

Francis: Yep. Yep, I think that's definitely the right call. It's just something that I'm just curious where you guys' heads are at, because obviously you have a pretty good handle on what's going on in the space and what kind of tools are available. So thinking about how you might integrate those tools into your platform, maybe down the road, is just always a good thing to have in mind.

Nicolai: Yeah, absolutely. AI can get expensive too. So we would have to like go ahead and like figure out if we need to change the pricing model, like and stuff like that.

Francis: Yeah, you could make it, again, obviously, I know this is not what you guys are focused on, but I know what SuperCreator is doing is they have a credit-based system. So the more you use their integrated AI chatbot, obviously, you get X number of conversations per credit, and then you can set it to auto-remove once all of the credits are expended. That way, you guys are never operating at a loss on AI usage, and it's usage-based, so it makes sense for the user, too.

Nicolai: Yeah, right now we have the account limits are essentially 750 generations max per month per account. So we could also implement, you know, increase the pricing on that based on generations as well. Yeah, we have answers to that.

Francis: Okay. Got it. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, well let's go, show me what this, the OnlyFans side of things looks like.

The Marketplace

Ollie: I'll run you through the marketplace and then I'll go onto the OF. But yeah, the marketplace, so essentially the marketplace is very, very simple. You've kind of just got everything here in one. So the posting service, this obviously has to do with the done for you. You kind of go in there and see the different service providers. Right now, we've just got one that says, "Fuck APIs," that's the main one that we're using. You got in here, very, very simple. But remember how I said at the beginning that setting a client up is so important because you can't actually buy any of the services without having the client set up. So for example, if I wanted to buy 10 Instagram accounts, full management, don't have to touch anything. I then would go into here. I've got the 10 accounts here and then I need to select a client. And that's kind of the most important thing to me. Now it's got to select the client. Then you can go ahead and confirm your order.

Obviously down here, there's information that you need to require. So 30 to 40 of your best reels, 20 images for the grid, Google drive link, and then also a link from like a juicy.bio as well to have in the bio itself. Then once that's done, 24 to 48 hours, the accounts are set up, posting started, and then you will be able to actually talk to the service provider in your inbox. So it's not like you don't know what's going on. You're having contact with them at all stages. So it's not one of those service providers where you hit them up and say, hey, what's going on? Because first off, you can track everything right then and there on Butter. Have the posts gone out? What are the views like? OK, now let's go talk to him. What stage are we at now? Are we kind of refining or is it still testing? So it's a really nice kind of unique way that you can stay in contact with someone who's actually managing it. But you don't have to if you don't want to because the results are there in front of your face.

Nicolai: Yeah, you can go ahead and confirm the order real quick. You don't have to pay right now just so we could show kind of like that flow. Ollie, if you don't mind. Select your client there. We're going to make the client as well optional based on popularity. But the client section was essentially there because we had a finance dashboard as well. So another thing in the space is everyone's showing their big Inflo numbers and no one knows what they actually make. So it's like we had every...

Francis: Got it. Yeah.

Nicolai: Yeah, you could back out now and then go to your orders tab, but obviously you don't have it right now. Yeah, we could use crypto, which is kind of terrible with Stripe. We're trying to see if we're gonna stick to crypto or Stripe. You can go to the, yep, and then go to your orders now. So you could just basically track your orders. Obviously the funds don't get released to the provider until the order is delivered. So that's the escrow system that we have.

Francis: Okay, so this is a Stripe checkout. Cool.

Ollie: Yeah.

Nicolai: And then yeah, choose a bunch of stuff, right. We have dispute centers, you know, you can see the progress if you scroll down, Ollie, you can see the progress of what's going on with your order. It's started stuff like that.

Francis: Awesome. Yeah. Man, this is an incredibly robust marketplace. Will you go back to the marketplace? I just want to see what other, so, okay. So for posting services, this is something if somebody chooses the "you do it for us" option, this is something that you guys would handle. But for the "do it yourself" clients who maybe have a little bit more of a creative ops background, but they don't feel like doing all the posting themselves, they can just come into this marketplace and hire somebody right here. Boom, post all my content for me.

Ollie: Yeah.

Nicolai: Correct, and you could also buy accounts here too. Another bottleneck that we see is people don't really like, how do I get accounts? So go to the account section. We have different types. We have main pages. These are all already hitting explore pages, for examples.

Francis: Yeah.

Ollie: Yeah, 4 to 1500 followers, how it works. You get the login credentials after successful login and access is changed, agreed to the order and funds will be automatically transferred. So it's just, there's no risk. You're actually getting what you're paying for, which is something that doesn't usually happen that much in this industry. And then also.

Francis: Yeah. And how are you guys vetting these service providers? Are these people that you've used just like trustworthy?

Ollie: Yeah, people that we've used and continue to use ourselves. So PokeMedia is where we will buy pretty much 100% of our accounts from.

Francis: Okay. Okay, got it.

Ollie: So yeah, we're using him continuously. But that's why we've got good prices with him. 20 Instagram accounts for $800 that all have high US audience, real views, real followers. That's a very good price when you're looking at things in the broader scheme of things. But then yeah, obviously there's other services.

Nicolai: Right.

Francis: For sure.

Nicolai: Yeah, we have, we also have 24/7 TikTok live automation, Twitter, unbanned services, you know, stuff like that.

Ollie: Yeah, 24/7, TikTok live.

Francis: So cool. Wait, so, okay, let's take a quick detour there. Explain that to me. What is a 24/7 TikTok live? I've never heard of anything like that.

Nicolai: Really? Have you ever gone on TikTok and you've seen the same live going repeating over and over again?

Francis: I literally don't use TikTok at all. As a user of social media, I don't use TikTok at all, so no.

Nicolai: Yeah, I would say this is we have white hat and we have black hat kind of services as well. Right. So it's, you know, it's without getting into it too much. You could be on live 24/7. Yeah. So we have a lot of — correct. Yeah. There's agencies right now making thousands of dollars a day, which is TikTok lives, you know.

Francis: Got it. Okay, very interesting. So is it just running looped footage or? Okay, but it's, wow, very interesting. I get it. Yeah, I mean, it seems like live is really what that platform is pushing now. I have almost completely abandoned TikTok. We have, we post all of our content to TikTok, but we're producing content for Instagram reels. We post it incidentally to TikTok. Sometimes they'll perform well, but the conversions on those, even when they perform well, is typically quite low. And the models that I work with don't like to do live stuff. So this is something that could be a consideration. Very cool.

Ollie: Yeah. Well, yeah, it's just I think it adds another. Go on. I think.

Nicolai: Yeah, we will be sorry about that. Good. Now we're going to be adding Reddit soon. Everything that's on the marketplace is something that we're still using. If it's not available in the marketplace, it's we don't trust it, for example, or it's no longer working. Right. So for example, right here, we only have Twitter growth available. Cause it's, I mean, that's my provider right now. And he's doing amazing work still.

Francis: Yeah. Yeah. Now, do you guys, I'm assuming because you're hosting all of this that you're taking at least some small piece of revenue generated through the marketplace for anybody that's like hosting ads for their company on your platform?

Nicolai: Yeah, we take 20% of all marketplace orders because we provide escrow and stuff that we need to refine. We basically have all those fees are on us. So just for us to have an escrow system, we're charging that. And then, you know, we'll be adding clippers as well as we get more proof of concept. But yeah, you could, if you want to show users managing users, that's kind of boring. I don't know if you want to, it's pretty basic.

Francis: Yeah. Very cool.

Ollie: Yeah, I was gonna show this last section as well. This last section is quite important because obviously when you come onto Butter, there are helpful videos in our Telegram. There's obviously the video at the start, but we also do have a knowledge base. So you don't have to sit there and DM myself or Nick being like, hey, how does this work? We have videos on everything. So clients, creating a client, client details, connecting accounts, text overlays, then the whole overview of the posting CRM itself, settings and teams. So it just makes it easier. If you're sat there at 3 a.m. and trying to set this up and I'm asleep and Nick's asleep, it's there — you don't have to worry. You can go ahead and get everything set up because everything in here will tell you what you need.

Francis: Got it.

Ollie: But yeah, then the last thing as well. So obviously part of this with the do it yourself is you have a VA who's posting for you. Your VA who posts for you, you don't want them seeing everything else around apart from just that content ready to post section. Why? Because it makes their life 10 times easier. They haven't got to scroll around, they've got to click four buttons. So to do that, what you're gonna do is you're go into manage users, add a new user. Here, you're just gonna put in their name, user type, email, password. You actually need a real email. We've just changed that before. You can put in whatever. Yeah, John Doe, user type. Now there's different user types. Obviously for a poster, pretty clear. Just click poster. Clients, you can have your clients actually see what's going on on Butter so they can just see their client tab itself. And then a team leader who can just basically see everything. But for a poster, you're gonna go in here, put in an email. Nick, you have a spare email? I'm pretty sure every single email I've got is linked up to Butter.

Nicolai: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've used all my emails as well, honestly. Yeah, I mean, it's basically like assigning anything else, right? So once you create the user, you can assign a client to that poster. You can assign accounts to that poster. So they basically only see what they're assigned to, right? So if you have one poster, yeah.

Ollie: Yeah.

Francis: Got it. Okay. I mean, so it's just user segmentation kind of like you have with Inflo where it's permissioned access to the platform.

Ollie: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicolai: Exactly like a team leader does everything that an admin can do except for delete anything, right?

Francis: Got it. Yeah, okay, makes perfect sense. You guys really thought of everything, huh?

Ollie: When you want to get experience. Yeah, you'll get it pop up here and then you'll just get the same assign just like you assign the content to a client. It's the exact same process. So then they'll be able to see that client then the pages as well. But I'm pretty, the last thing that I wanted to say obviously is when you want to upgrade, if you're doing it to done for you, obviously right here, it tells you your subscription and billing plan. Right now I'm free so I can't actually post but if I was to go upgrade plan, you've got all of the pricing in front of you with what it includes.

Nicolai: I wish.

Ollie: Five social accounts, 10 social accounts, 20 social accounts, and then unlimited team members, team members posting CRM. So everything's here for you. You don't need to contact us, but if you do want to contact us to sit down, we're more than happy to sit down on calls, kind of explain what the best process is for your current situation. If that's, you want the done for you, or have you already got a system that's gonna work better with the do it yourself, more than happy to kind of go through that on a call and explain and everything, but yeah, everything's included. You can kind of see it for yourself. It's all in different areas, but once you kind of get to grips with it, it's a really, really nice software to use.

Nicolai: Yeah, also another thing that makes us unique versus other platforms. If you go back there, Ollie.

Ollie: Yeah, I'm just going to log into my actual Butter account now so I can show the other side of things.

Nicolai: Yeah.

OnlyFans Dashboard Integration

Francis: Yeah, let's look at the OF side and let's also, I would obviously like the viewers to see some results that you guys have achieved, even if it's just with your own models through the platform, because obviously, that's what most people are going to care about.

Ollie: Yeah, let me just get this linked up. I'm gonna show off Cherry Locks. So here we go. Okay, so yeah, this is kind of what Butter looks like. I've got it saved to my dashboard, so it looks very different. But right now on here, you can kind of see the total generated for today, monetization ratio, conversion rate, and then you can have a nice breakdown of paid messages, tips, recurring subs, subscription. So new subs, old subs recurring. And then as we said, it's there — we're not, you see 6,000. You then in your head think, I made 6,000. It's like, no, you've made $3,174 today. It's a completely different thing. It's a little bit of ego checking, but at the same time, that's kind of needed, especially when you're now navigating in business to what you really want to actually go ahead and achieve.

Francis: Got it.

Nicolai: Yeah, go back to the dashboard real quick, Ollie. Sorry about that. We don't have the views on the today, but if you go like last 30 days, for example, yeah, you could see it'll take a couple seconds to load because it's calculating a bunch of stuff. So you could see what models, you have 10 models and you're seeing spikes and you're like, shit, what's going on, right? So you could see that on one dashboard. You could see what the different models are and stuff.

Francis: Yes, thank you.

Nicolai: Yeah.

Ollie: Yeah. And then remember how you were kind of talking about when you like actually click the tracking link and get the tracking link. You're able to see it on the client card itself. So this tracking link here has generated $31,000 in revenue from just this page. 2.7K subscriptions, 74.6K clicks. And then if we go in there, we'll be able to see when we click edit, it's there like you can see the actual tracking link on OF itself linked to this page. So we're now able to see how many clicks, how many subscribers and the conversion rate and then how much money has been made from that. So that's the kind of aspect of where you have the OF side integrated. So if I'm looking at Cherry right here, I'm looking through here thinking, okay, 53 clicks, zero subscribers. It's a new account, it's warming up. So obviously if it's all...

Francis: Yeah.

Nicolai: This is where attribution comes in, right? Because obviously, we're probably missing 70% of data, right? So that's what we're trying to solve, just so people can get scalable. But if you scroll up to, you could also see, you know, like how many posts have went out today, like how many posts are going out for the week, you know, basically everything you need on a dashboard and then we have like the Instagram, TikTok. So when we release, as we release more platforms, you'll be able to see everything on one view.

Ollie: Yeah, on one dashboard.

Francis: Amazing. Very cool stuff, guys.

Nicolai: Yeah. And then if you go to the settings page, Ollie, real quick. Yeah. And let's just say you have a big operations, go to posting progress and let's just say you have a hundred accounts, 20 clients, right? So you can basically see like how much you're spending for the day or the post going out or the posting goals being met. You know, it's you can select time ranges and see like, okay, we've only hit 80% of our goal and stuff like that. It's all basically in one platform.

Francis: Yeah, I mean, again, it seems like you guys have really thought of everything. This is so comprehensive, so robust. And as you were alluding to earlier, Nick, there's a million different directions that you guys can go in this. This obviously seems like something that every OnlyFans agency that even touches organic social, like an instant no-brainer, yes, let's add it to the stack. But there's also, and I'm sure you guys are aware of this and you're going to be pursuing this long term, this has monstrous implications outside of OnlyFans for anybody, any kind of brand or company or media organization that has a substantial social media presence and wants to be as active as possible which seems kind of like what's being rewarded right now this is going to be huge for them too so what do you guys see — what's on the roadmap let's say six months a year two years out what do you guys see as the progression of the company?

Nicolai: I would say, yeah, so I would probably say integrating other platforms like a Shopify integration for attribution, for organic. There isn't really something out there where you're getting organic data and conversion data. So you're not really able to scale social media accounts properly unless you're tracking. And then we're thinking about a WAP integration for people that are selling courses and stuff, School integration. So just more integrations once we have the product actually honed out and we have released at least all short form content platforms.

Ollie: Go on then.

Francis: Yeah.

Nicolai: the product actually honed out and we have released at least all short form content platforms.

Francis: And I think that's super smart. Obviously, if you're thoughtful about how you do it and you're doing these implementations one at a time, you get to make, on the marketing side, you get to make a huge push after each integration. Because obviously, a company like WAP is going to want to push all of that out to their consumers and say, hey, you can now get even better attribution, better tracking through our sister platform, Butter. And then on your side, you can do a big marketing push that's associated with that. And then you're reaching, you get a natural audience. Very similar to what, do you, either of you guys know like how PayPal started, like what their initial target audience was?

Ollie: I do not.

Nicolai: Same, I don't.

Francis: So the PayPal story is basically Peter Thiel and the PayPal mafia guys, they basically said, okay, what is the smallest possible group of users that we can start with? Because this is before there's like online payments was widely available. Most people were like building their own online payments platforms. So what they identified is that there was a really small group of eBay power users, guys who were just selling super high volume on eBay. PayPal was only available to those people. It's a cohort of maybe 5,000 of these users. It was a really small, eBay wasn't very big. And then it was a really small percentage of the eBay platform, but they completely captured that market. And then graduated from, okay, now we're the preferred payments partner for eBay power users to now we're the preferred payments partner. We've demonstrated that this works for the power users. If it works for them, obviously it's going to work for everybody else. And then eBay naturally PayPal became the default payment processor for eBay and that's billions of dollars of transactions. So that's how PayPal got huge.

And it seems to me like you guys are providing such a robust platform. Usually when I see a platform and especially with younger, you guys are younger guys. Obviously it's a newer platform. You guys have only been, how long have you actually been selling this product for? How long has it been available to consumers?

Ollie: Properly literally the past 10 days. We've actually been pushing it before that when it was in testing obviously with Nick using it and then people that were kind of close to our circle of people inside the OFM industry and then obviously people that we also knew in different industries, but really the past 10 days. And already with the people that we've got on they're seeing great results. We did a kind of results chain in the telegram group the other day — some guy got two million views within using it the first three days and it was kind of there like as soon as he's posting that more people are actually coming in so you are right.

Francis: Yeah.

Ollie: Yeah, for sure.

Nicolai: I think he's had 120 million views in the last 30 days. Yeah, everyone that's using it is getting better results than posting themselves.

Francis: Amazing. Yeah, and I'm sure that that trend is going to continue. There's, I mean, this is just a huge opportunity space that you guys are developing into. But for such a young platform, everything seems to work extremely well. It's fast, it's smooth. The UI is really simple. You guys have already integrated a marketplace with a bunch of service providers for — my initial thought would be this is too daunting to build because something that I encountered with Harpoon was a lot of people don't do organic social the way that I do, or they have different ideas about how it's quote-unquote supposed to work and so I had to do a lot of upfront education of like well not only like is this how you use our product this is like how you do social media and it seems like you guys are you completely — the whole point of Butter is to just take all the guesswork out and to put everything into one platform and as far as I can tell you guys are absolutely crushing — you're doing a fantastic job so super impressed I can't wait to use this thing myself honestly.

Nicolai: Yeah, but it's so new. It's like, we always say BTC 2013, but we literally just became, we literally just enabled it. You couldn't even pay before you would have to contact us. So I think the hardest part was probably bringing it to where it was like, cause Butter has been working for years, right? Before it was like you log in, you get a blank screen. What do I do? You know, so that part, the actual user experience has been what we've been focusing on for the last two months and yeah, that was basically our focus.

Ollie: Yeah, yeah.

Francis: Yeah, but the actual customer onboarding process making it simple for people. Yeah.

Ollie: Yeah, yeah.

Nicolai: What we've been focusing on for the last like two months and yeah, that was, yeah, basically.

Ollie: Yeah, it's a new, it's a new software to everyone else, but it's not new to myself and Nick. It's there. When I first discovered Butter, when Nick was showing me on like a Google meets, it was there. I saw the vision, but it was there. Everything didn't really, it was very raw. It kind of worked specifically for Nick's head. So really since then, it's just been improving it to first off, have a dashboard, have a UI interface that's smooth, well connected, that anyone, when they go on there, it's not guessing — what does this button do? What does this button do? It's there like everything has an actual function and that's one of the most important parts is they're like We we felt like we were ready to push this out in the summer just gone. But it's there like if we pushed this out in the summer just gone we were probably gonna be too far behind of where we wanted to be with actual user experience. And I think that's something that's so important that myself and Nick have spent a lot of time talking about, which was when you get someone to first come onto a software, that's their first impression. If it doesn't work for them at that point, they're probably not gonna use it again in the future because their first impression was, it didn't work last time, not gonna work this time.

Francis: For sure, yeah. The other side of that, obviously, is that if you have flawless UX, it seems like you guys, everything that you showed me is all function, no fluff. Which for a platform that's doing as many things as Butter, really impressive, speaks to you guys as UI UX understanding. You guys clearly have a deep understanding and care for the customer experience. But then on top of that, you guys are hyper-targeting this niche market right now of just OnlyFans creators. But obviously, again, the opportunity space for this is all people who use social media at scale.

I think BTC 2013, maybe not quite that big, but early PayPal, I think that that is like a pretty apt comparison because I think you guys are gonna dominate, you're gonna capture the OFM market very, very quickly. I think you're gonna completely saturate this market, hopefully, even faster than you guys anticipate. And then you get to start solving other people's problems and expanding concentrically outward from there. Really excited for you guys. I mean, you guys have a great, you've built a great product. You should be proud of yourselves, for sure.

Nicolai: Thank you, bro. I feel like we've kind of cracked almost the impossible, which is consistently having social media growth. I mean, in the last 30 days, we've only had a handful of agencies using it, and I think we've generated upwards of 350 million views. So it'd be cool to be like, OK, what if 100 agencies use it? Maybe we'll get to 100 million views a day quickly.

Ollie: Thank you.

Francis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that word of mouth is gonna be, hopefully people aren't like, this is the secret, I have to keep it to myself. But I think you'll have enough fans of the product that it'll be, you're gonna get escape velocity very quickly.

Nicolai: Yeah.

Ollie: There you go. No, I agree. I agree. And I think the more and more people that use it, the more and more people that are actually seeing how useful it is. I mean, this week alone, a lot of people are just coming in saying, I heard about it here. What does it do? And obviously, myself and Nick know instantly, it's this. So trying to explain new users, that's the kind of part that we were working on getting past now, which is why we have the onboarding system. It's why we have the Telegram channel. You're right, it's right now, the main target is OFM because it's like myself and Nick are in that industry. Whereas the next stage is we're already talking to people that run large kind of clipping agencies or they work with creators that are selling courses. And then obviously we've got people on there as well that already do sell courses and see results. So it's one of those things it's industry by industry and it's kind of a software like this. All it needs is word of mouth. If someone has a friend who's in OFM and he tells another friend who's already selling info courses, it's like, why don't you just use this? That's all it needs.

And that's why on the last call we said, it's kind of like the goal is 100K MRR. But really, if we're looking at it, it's kind of like, even though it seems so great to get there, it's two big clients. It's two big clients that come in and just wanna bankroll everything and go from here to there with their social media presence in just a matter of a month. I mean, I was looking at it the other day, Brez Scales, one of the biggest guys on social media right now, went from doing five million views a month with his clipping to the next month doing 100, and then the month after that, he did 500 million. So it's kind of the scale that he was operating at was obviously smaller, bigger, and then it just popped off. And that's something that we can do with Butter, but we can just do it on a much cheaper scale to the point where, as we said earlier, it's you own the funnel, you own the account, you own what's the content that you're putting out there. So it's not having someone clip it up and he might clip up something that's a bit controversial or what you said, and then it reflects badly on you. It's like, no, you have complete control over what you want out there, what image you want to create and kind of what you're doing with every single view that you get.

Francis: Yeah. Yeah, again, I'm super excited to use it. I'm super excited to use it for Intimate Underworld, but then also, and I think that you guys are gonna get a ton of traction here as well, both on the OnlyFans side and once you start expanding outwards from there, AI influencers. It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems to me like the higher the volume of content that you're able to produce and upload to Butter, so that that repurposing engine and that analytics engine can do its work and say, this is what's working, this is what's not. The more information you feed it, it seems like more powerful that engine is going to become. And with AI, obviously, you can create nigh infinite content. Basically, your only throughput issue is your creativity and however much money you have to actually spend to create the content. But if you just have somebody that's pumping out 100 clips a day with Veo 3, and they're able to feed that into Butter and just have it churn out content. I think that's a super powerful use case. That's definitely what I'm going to be using it for once we get that content engine online for the AI companion startup that I'm working with. And yeah, I'm just excited, excited to use the product, excited to see where it goes for you guys, and very, very happy that I'm able to sit down and have this conversation with you guys. This is super cool.

Ollie: No, we're happy to be here. Yeah, I definitely think it's something that a lot of people will use and use effectively in the future.

Francis: Cool. Well, thank you guys again for your time. If people want to go check out, where do they find you guys? Give me socials, give me obviously the Butter website, where they can onboard.

Ollie: Yeah, so everything is just first off the website is just hellobutter.io then the social media account for Butter as well is just hellobutter.io then I'm building a personal brand pushing it as well which is just Olly McKinley my name no full stops and then obviously the Telegram channel. The Telegram channel is probably the most important thing especially if you're in the OFM industry because on there you've got kind of the detailed videos of how to use it, the services, what is Butter and then from there we also have the open communication channel so you can speak with other people actually using Butter, see their results, their conversions, what's working for them and then obviously building a community around that that kind of helps each other grow and expand is only in our best interest as well.

Francis: Awesome. And what's the name of the telegram handle for that group?

Ollie: I'll send you the link for it, it is, let me get it for you now. It is Butter then just a slash OFM CRM and marketplace.

Francis: Okay, cool. And I'll make sure that there's links to all of that stuff in the description. But yeah.

Nicolai: Yeah, we just released the affiliate dashboard like two days ago. So we're more than happy to give your users a discount code. And you could also benefit from it as well. Awesome, brother.

Francis: Yeah, let's do it. Alright, amazing. Well, thank you guys again. Best of luck with everything. Excited to see what you guys do and excited to use the product.

Nicolai: Awesome brother, thanks for having us on.

Ollie: Thank very much.

Francis: Absolutely.

---

Episode 30: The Future of Social Media Distribution

Francis: Alright, we are live. Let me close this. Let me make sure. Okay, echo cancellation on all of us. Alright, we're good. So, yeah, welcome to the channel, guys. Thank you guys so much for showing up. We've got Ollie and Nikolai from the... is it Hello Butter? Butter, what's the official?

Ollie: Yeah, so it's hellobutter.io, but myself and Nick, just call it Butter. It's easy, simple, but yeah, hellobutter.io. Yeah, exactly.

Francis: Cleaner, yeah. Okay, awesome. So we've got Ali and Nick from Butter. I've been really looking forward to this conversation because as you guys may or may not know, organic social is 90% of what I talk about on this channel. I just dropped a video where I talk about how there's this huge void in the market for tracking and attribution on socials and Nick, I think, reached out to me and was like, hey man, we're actually building exactly that thing that you said didn't exist. So very, very serendipitous, great timing, and I'm looking forward to hearing all about it.

Nicolai: Same, brother.

Ollie: Yeah, I'm excited to tell you. No, I was just saying I was excited to tell you more about it because I agree there's a huge space in the market with what we've got with Butter right now to help out as many people as possible.

Origin Stories and Background

Francis: Yeah, 100%. Before we get into all of that, if you guys would please just give us a quick, you know, short origin story. Maybe Oli first, just your professional background, how you got introduced to the OnlyFans and digital intimacy ecosystem, and how you guys started Butter.

Ollie: Yeah, so myself, I'm 24 years old right now. I'm from the UK originally. I went more the conventional route to begin with. So I went to university. I have a background in psychology, so I've got my degree there. And then when I left psychology and kind of that atmosphere of university and studying, that's when internet money was kind of blowing up on social media. You had your Iman Gadzis were putting things out there. And so I started looking into things. And it was actually one of my friends who was there, like, you heard about OFM? So yeah, I started looking into it more and then it just ended up one day, I reached out to a few models from my own Instagram. And then from there just kind of got started. Back end of last year, scaled my agency to a mid six-figure month, working with some big names in the industry. And then beginning of this year, that's kind of when the focus changed and looking to build something longer term than just an agency, looking to build something that will actually help other people in their journey as well.

Francis: Excellent. Yeah, I'd like to hear that. And Nikolai, what about you?

Nicolai: Yeah, man, my story is much different. You know, I used to be a music kid, you know, I used to like love music. And then first I'm older, I'm 33, right? So my dreams didn't come through, you know, I'm like 26, 27, like depressed at work, literally panic attacks. And then I just took a risk with one client, started with one client. It was an affiliate program that just went super viral. And then that led into automation, but my technical skills came from cracking software and stuff like that, you know? So that's kind of where I got like my whole technical kind of skills, but yeah, that led onto one thing, COVID came. Got into e-commerce, did really well during COVID and e-comm. We did a couple million within the first six months, but just as fast as it came, it went away as well. Since then it was just serial entrepreneurism, literally, you know, had it. Yeah, and then, you know, I moved out to Columbia, I'm based in Columbia now, literally two weeks in, both of my stores crashed. So I'm like, what do I do? You know? So I was just like, there's a lot of women here, how do we capitalize on it? And yeah, that's basically my story, how it fell into my lap.

Francis: Jumping into the deep end thing. Interesting, very interesting. How did you guys meet?

Ollie: We met in March of this year, funny enough, through one of our mutual friends. They put me in contact, a guy called Karthik out in Dubai. And then Nick needed some help with chatting. And that's actually when kind of collaboration on Butter started in March of this year. But Butter and the whole premise of what Butter is had been running long before that. Obviously, as Nick said, he's the software guy. He understands everything. He's the technical guy. So when I saw it, it was more a case of it was a product that had been built for Nick's mind and Nick's mind only. So really when I came on in March, it was much more a case of, okay, how do we transform this into something that people can use on a day-to-day basis where it's like they log on, it's simple, everything's there and it's not just perfect for Nick's brain, it's perfect for everyone else's brain to use as well.

Francis: Got it, okay. Yeah, it's fun. I think, Nick, I think you probably saw the video that I just dropped on product development for OnlyFans. And there's so many parallels between what I was talking about in my experience and it sounds like what you guys went through. So it's cool to have that experience validated by somebody else knowing that I'm not just making shit up.

So, okay, well let's get into the meat of the conversation here, because obviously we want to talk about Butter. I think this is, my understanding of it, it seems like this is kind of just a no-brainer smash add to everybody's marketing stack, but explain to me and to the audience as though we know absolutely nothing, in plain English, as few buzzwords as possible, what is Butter and what is the problem or problems that you guys are trying to solve with this product.

What Is Butter?

Ollie: So in the most simple terms, it is just a tool that helps you grow faster on social media. But it's a different type of growth to you running like a main Instagram page where you're posting one or two times a day. Really what we specialize is in mass distribution of content and there's different features of Butter that we'll obviously at some point get into that allow us to kind of do that on a mass scale. So we're not looking to just run the one Instagram here and post one times a day, post a story — no, we're brute forcing our way to virality by just simply posting content that works every single time.

And then obviously with the problems that we're trying to solve, we all own agencies, so we all understand both Nick and myself, it's they're like lazy models are a huge part of OF. So that's one of the first things that we needed to tackle, which is not needing a consistent stream of content to actually see growth but on an organic side. Most of that comes from more like a black hat side where it's like you're doing paid promo, dating apps, those sorts of things. The real target or the real issue that we had is we wanted to grow organically, but you need content to grow organically. So how can we solve that?

We obviously built some stuff with Butter that now allows us to kind of navigate our way around needing that consistent stream of growth. I would say the other thing is scale. When you're trying to scale an agency, normally you have to scale every single part of your agency to actually get to that next level. It's not like you can just scale chatting to get there because then you've got 50 chatters on, but you're getting 10 fans a day. So it's like, you need to scale both sides. And I think with scaling both sides of an agency, social media comes first before you actually scale the backend. Because if you scale the backend and don't have enough coming in, you're paying people for just sitting around. So really it tackles that need of scaling. With Butter, you can open up, you want to open up 50 Instagram accounts tomorrow and start posting. It's done. There's no thought behind it. It's just, it's quick, it's efficient, it's easy and I think those are the things that we've really gone for.

And then obviously on the kind of attribution side is tracking performance. A huge thing that we've seen in both of our journeys is you'll post something and you'll never really know — it's there like, okay, it's got views, but has the views actually meant anything? And doesn't mean is this your style of content for the model that will work time and time again? Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it really is like, this content vertical worked once, let's try it again and try it again. And it's like, okay, maybe it was a one-off and it worked. Butter and how it's set up and the strategy and the process of growing the pages means we're able to see, this style of content's working, so we're just gonna feed the algorithm exactly that.

And then finally, yeah, I think myself and Nick obviously spoke about this a lot of times, which is when you come into OFM, it's almost like entering a new world. You don't know what to do. You don't know where to start. There's so many people out there telling you, this is the new meta, this is the new meta, but really, yeah, exactly. And it's kind of there, like you'll come in and someone will still tell you that dating apps are generating 100K a month. Reddit solely is doing it. And it's kind of there, like probably not. Whereas the one thing that's actually stayed consistent throughout the whole time of OnlyFans is organic content. In the times of COVID where a model could post some kind of raunchy style TikTok and it would pop off and bring in views and subs, you can still do that. Obviously there are a few different things you now need to abide by on social media, but organic will always be king. So when someone comes into the OF space, we want to tackle that problem of it's not that difficult to now get in. The market is you get in, you look for someone who can maybe mentor you and help you to that 10k a month and really we want Butter to be that. You come in, you've got everything on one software, you know where you need to go, you're not going to be scammed trying to buy an account. You're not gonna be scammed trying to buy a service. So we're trying to give everyone an equal opportunity from the bottom to the top to actually make it a fair competition of, okay, who's really got the best model? Who's really got the best content? Who's really got the best strategy? And I think so far we've been able to do that with a lot of the results that we're getting from just opening up new pages and seeing great growth to begin with.

Francis: Got it. Okay. So walk me through- go ahead, Nick.

Nicolai: Yeah, let me add to that too. I think it's really important for us as agencies, since we've been in it, well, I've only been in it two years and a half, but people kind of stumble on this. People don't just say, hey, I'm going to just get into the OnlyFans industry, right? It's usually something like you have a girlfriend and her best friend does it, or it's kind of like a black hole, especially if you don't come from internet money. Making money online previously is...

Francis: It's like an opportunity that appears and you're like, okay, well, this might be lucrative as opposed to something that you actively seek out.

Nicolai: Yeah, and even when you get in it, you're like, what do I do now? You know, so I think now that we're in it, we know exactly what goes on. But, you know, when you think about the first person getting into this, it's very chaotic. It's extremely chaotic. So yeah, we're just trying to simplify it.

Francis: Sure, yeah. 100%. Got it. OK, I love that. Would you say, obviously, you guys are trying to reach the entire OFM market. Would you say that Butter is primarily aimed at newer agencies, who are trying to understand organic social, and this is helping them streamline that entire onboarding process?

Ollie: So I wouldn't say there's directly targeted at them. I'd say it's targeted at everyone because Butter can be used with different strategies. So for example, if you want to come on and figure out how and what's working for you, then you can just do it at a lower scale. But if you're a bigger agency and it's there, like, okay, you look at some of the top models today, they've all got ridiculous amounts of accounts posting content continuously. It's there like this gives bigger agencies the capability to go even bigger. It gives middle level agencies that ability to now move up to the next level, but it also gives that lower agency the capability to be there like, okay, this is actually what I need to do. I need my model to recreate this style of content. I need her to do this. This style of content is working more, so I'm gonna now favor this. It just streamlines the whole kind of scaling to that next level. So if that's on the bottom level going up one level, that whole process is just streamlined with Butter.

The Product Features

Francis: Got it. So walk me through, what are the three big features that you're offering here? So Butter, obviously, attribution is one of them. Are you guys also doing scheduling? How are you making this easier for people that are relatively new to organic social? What's the actual product look like if I'm a new user?

Ollie: Yeah, so if you're a new user, it's the first thing that I would say is actually understanding how you want to use Butter. So we have two different ways that you can use Butter. Firstly, you can use Butter with a do it yourself method or a done for you service. The done for you is completely handled by us. The only thing that you need to really give us is a content drive with 30 pieces of content, 20 grid photos, and then the links. Because obviously the links are huge for the attribution aspect. Everything's handled for you. For example, if you want to open up five Instagram accounts, those five Instagram accounts are posted on freshly there between 400 to 1,500 followers. And then the actual process of posting on mass starts. So really, if you're coming in and you don't know an awful lot about it, yeah, the done for you takes it off your hands.

But if you know somewhat about social media and know what you need to be doing, the do it yourself is obviously the way that myself and Nick would go because it's there like first off, it's cheaper. But second off, to run it at scale, you have so much more control over — I'll take this post is popping off right now. Do you know what? I'm gonna post another five times in the next 20 minutes. That is the kind of thing that we're encouraging people to go towards the do it yourself to really get on there, understand the do it yourself method is obviously a little bit more kind of hands on because you need your own teams, but that would really be looking at, okay, how many accounts do you want to connect to Butter that you are going to use the software for? So when I say that, that's for the tracking of performance. That's for the repurpose engine we have on the backend that allows us to post the video so many times over and over again with tweaks, minor tweaks. So looks like the exact same video, but it's not. But that's how we get the success because it's if you're posting the same video that's already popped off and you give the algorithm the exact same video, practically it's going to pop off again. So you connect the accounts, once you've connected the accounts, it's uploading content, then connecting the content to each account.

Francis: Got it, okay.

Ollie: And that's important because when your posters go on, we've tried to dumb the process down because dumbing the process down allows us to speed the process up. If it's really as simple as clicking one button, then another button, then another button, you can't mess it up. It's virtually impossible to mess up. So the backend system and everything that we've created this for, well, first off myself and Nick do it ourselves. So we're obviously big advocates for do it yourself, but that's why the process of doing it yourself is so much easier. But yeah, if you're a new user, and you're looking to really understand how can I best use Butter, the first thing that I would say, and I think Nick would agree with me on this is, you need to first understand, are you wanting this service done for you where you want no headache, views, fans coming in? Or do you want to do it yourself, more control, understand what's working, and then scale bigger from there? And then once you've decided that, then it's either done for you or do it yourself.

Francis: Got it. Okay. So you guys are basically acting as you have this big bucket of content that the user can upload. You're automatically, if they go with the you do it for them route, you're automatically distributing that content to whatever accounts they link. So what platforms do you guys support? Instagram, TikTok, what else?

Ollie: So currently it's just Instagram. We do have TikTok in beta testing. The thing is with what myself and Nick, and this is something that we talk about very regularly. It's they're like, there's obviously an essence of speed in business, but when you're running a tool that you want so many people to use, the process of how you come about as a software and as a name in an industry or even just the online money industry is so important because you don't want someone being there like, I tried TikTok, it didn't work. It's they're like, you've lost that client, he's gone. They're never gonna wanna use it again. So we focus on Instagram, master Instagram, and then yeah, TikTok's in beta testing right now. And we're seeing good results with it. We're seeing really good results. We're seeing good results with TikTok, TikTok affiliate, TikTok shops, stuff like that. And then obviously once we've kind of got TikTok nailed down, those are the two big organic kind of social media platforms for me. And then obviously X, Threads, YouTube shorts in the next few months or over the next course of the year.

Nicolai: Thanks.

Francis: Okay, awesome. Okay. So Instagram is your primary focus. That makes perfect sense. I think it's the platform where most people are getting the most juice out of that platform. It's definitely the most robust by far. So, okay. So user onboards, they have this big bucket of content in a Google drive or whatever. You're automatically uploading that content. You're identifying which pieces of content are going viral. So you're basically performance tracking within that bucket of content. And then when something pops off, you're identifying that and then you're automatically reposting it. Is that an accurate assessment?

Ollie: Yeah, so.

Nicolai: Yeah, but this is all done. This is all done. We're not going in there. It's all done with the software, right?

Ollie: Yeah, by the software. The software, yeah, so essentially the process of it is it's a two week process. Sometimes it's less like, for example, let's say I open up five accounts today. I'm going to post those 30 pieces of content across all five accounts for the next two weeks. And the software after two weeks is going to tell me the average views of the video compared to the average views of the account. And then from there, I'm then going to cross reference. Okay. Let's say the average views of the accounts just to make it easy is 10 K we're getting 10 K average views, but this video here is only getting three K. Well, I'm not going to have this piece of content still attached to this account. I'm going to turn that piece of content off. So after two weeks, really what you're seeing is the content that's constantly performed per page is the only content that's being generated and therefore posted to the page. So that's how we're able to see the growth because we're only feeding that one Instagram page. So therefore that one Instagram algorithm what it wants to have success.

Francis: Got it. OK, I think that's an incredibly genius approach to social. My personal approach that I preach is branded models, right? You want to have models that are producing extremely high quality content in a very niche, a very specific niche that's very highly differentiated. But I think a lot of agencies don't have the, they don't have the creative understanding of what good content actually looks like. And they would much rather kind of go for that factory farm approach, which is why you see so many people doing the black hat horizontally scaling thing where they're spinning up a hundred different Instagram accounts and they're spamming the same content. So what you guys are doing is basically catering to that audience of people who are like, our creative is maybe not the best in the world, but we want to, we know that we have a few bangers. We want to identify what those are and then scale across all of those accounts. And you guys automate that entire process. I think that's fucking brilliant. So kudos to you guys for even recognizing that's something that so many agencies are doing and they've all figured out their own probably very inconvenient and resource intensive way to do that. So productizing that seems like an incredible idea.

Nicolai: Yeah, this is also just sorry, this is something that I've been doing this for three years, you know, so in and outside of OFM. So it's not some products out there. They're billion dollar companies that are based on exploits, right? Like a ticket master or something, right? Where it's just not worth it. That's kind of what we are. We're trying to like we found a really good system and we just productized it essentially and everybody has their own claims, but no one really backs it the way we do. I feel like no one's really like, they might open up a hundred accounts, literally get zero views, all of them got zero, you know, like we don't do any, like this is top to bottom, like we figured everything out on it. Yeah, and actually works, it actually gets views and subs and conversions.

Francis: Yeah. And it actually works, yeah. Yeah, I mean that's incredible. That's obviously the dream and then packaging that and selling it is like duh. That's that obviously has and we'll get into this later too, but it seems to me like that has some pretty substantial implications even outside of OFM. There's plenty of other industries that are going to want access to stuff like this. Before we get into all of that, like there's obviously there's a million different directions this conversation can go. But my initial interest in you guys and how we got connected was on the attribution piece. So I want to understand from your perspective. Why is attribution across all of these platforms so bad? Because I'm pretty non-technical. But seems like it's such an obvious, solvable problem. OnlyFans tracking links collecting maybe 20 or 30% of the data that they actually should. There are certain accounts where I'll get between 300 and 600 paid subs a day. And I know 100% of those subs are coming from Instagram, because it's the only place that I advertise for that model.

Nicolai: Yeah.

Francis: But the link tracking will only pick up like 100 of them. And I'm like, well, what the fuck? Why do I even bother with this? So A, why are those attribution links so bad? And then B, why are the platforms not fixing that natively? Are they just anticipating that a third party like you guys is going to come along and fix their problem for them? Or what's going on there from your perspective?

Ollie: I think from my side being once again non-technical as well, and I look at it more from a psychological, but a business psychological stance point is they don't really care in all honesty. It's not Instagram's job. Instagram's main priority is to keep you on Instagram scrolling. That's when they make the most out of a consumer. Yeah. So as long as what their role of their platform is doing, which is just keeping you scrolling, they don't care if you've clicked on a link and then gone to OF and it's there like it's a conversion. That's not up to them. That's not what they're focusing on. I think it's similar to any platform. You look at TikTok, for example, TikTok doesn't like you linking Instagram because it's you're now taking a user from TikTok to Instagram. So I think that's kind of how I view it in the sense of these platforms have one goal and as long as you're supporting that one goal by putting out content and keeping a user there, they will reward you. But they don't care if your views actually relate to you making money on the backend. But that's why there's so many different things that come in like many chat, because that's the next step that helps you. So I do think that they do, they don't care if third parties come along and solve the issue or not, because they've got what they wanted out of you. That's why the ability for something like many chat and Butter as well to come in and solve that issue has been created.

Francis: Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me.

Nicolai: Yeah, on a more technical side, I guess, it's, OF in itself is a, I feel like where their struggle is, they, where they messed up, I think is they try to release products like OFTV and you know, create content that's native to the OF platform, but no one uses it. That's how it was supposed to be built, right? So it wasn't built with bringing traffic onto the platform. Like for example, a chatter bait, right? Like they already have all the traffic in the world, right? Like you literally just go on there and you just get traffic. OF I think they didn't, they just didn't build it like this. Like they could easily open up ability to alter the header, the body, you know, add a pixel in there and it solves everything. You know, they run very — it's a very small team, right? So I don't think they have like, it's a very big need for them to hire more people, worry about analytics, know, server costs, all this stuff, even though they're printing money, you know? But yeah, that's my take on it on a more technical side there.

Francis: Got it. OK, well that makes sense. Sticking, I guess, with sticking with the technical piece, how do you guys, so first of all, what does the attribution piece look like for you guys? What are you able to track? And then how are you improving on the existing tracking link?

Nicolai: Yeah, currently there's still a lot of limitations, right? Hold on real quick. Ollie, just take over this one real quick. Actually, I don't know why my dog, I literally got a delivery as you asked me the question. Sorry, my dog is going crazy. Let me just answer real quick. Yeah. So right now we're in beta right now for, the only way we'll fully be able to get a good increase is when we own the middle funnel, which is the link in bio.

Francis: Big dog. No, all good.

Nicolai: Right. So right now we get conversion data, right? So we're getting conversion event data. So we have top of funnel, which is traffic. Once we solve a link in bio, right? That tool will be able to increase tracking by a significant amount. So without saying that much, we own every side of the piece. We own top of funnel, middle of funnel and bottom of funnel, which is clicks in conversion events. And then we can go ahead and, you know, there's big products like Hyros or Triple Whale. These are products in the e-commerce space. They're multi-billion dollar products and all they do is attribution, literally. It's plug this in so you can scale your ads, right? So it's why create 20 accounts, IG accounts, when you can't even properly track where the traffic's coming from, right?

Francis: Right, I mean, yeah, that's a huge problem in the space because you can't make informed business decisions. You don't understand where the fuck your traffic's coming from, especially if you're agency that's running social and paid ads and every piece of it matters, but you don't know where to invest if you don't know where your traffic's coming from.

Nicolai: Exactly. Yeah, and with that, we're standardizing paid ads into, we have CPMs, we have CPCs, we have RPVs. So basically everything that you would get from data from analytics tools from Meta or Triple Whale, we're trying to commoditize that and make that a normal thing in this space as well.

Francis: Got it. So talking about the link in bio piece, is that something that you guys intend to develop your own link in bio platform or are you looking at partnerships or integrations? What's your plan there?

Nicolai: We're in talks with some integrations, but eventually if we can't move at the, if they can't move at our pace, we'll just build our own, literally we've been waiting to get access to someone in the space that just launched his own. Yeah, that's, you know, basically it's that without saying too much. At the end of the day, our goal is to solve that issue because if we don't solve attribution, then it'll completely go against our business model altogether.

Francis: Sure.

Nicolai: altogether.

Francis: Got it. So aside from the attribution piece, let's maybe talk about what else Butter does. So what is kind of your overarching goal with Butter? What is the, if you had to one sentence it, what is the problem that you're trying to solve? And then what's the holistic experience you guys are trying to deliver for your customers?

The Holistic Vision

Ollie: So I think in the OFM space, it's you have Inflo and you have Butter. It's as simple as that. You have one CRM for the backend, one CRM from the front end. My biggest issue with it is you've got Google drive open here. You got sheets open here. You got Instagram open here. And it's there like, it's not, yeah, it's not productive. And it's also there like when you have a team of VAs and you're talking to them on Telegram.

Francis: Got it. A really disjointed experience.

Ollie: I would still find myself saying, have you posted? And then they say, yes. And then you would still go and check if they posted to find out they haven't posted. And then you go back and say, you haven't posted. And it's like, you've wasted 20 minutes trying to figure that out. And that's another thing with more on the holistic experiences. They're like with Butter, we track per post. So it's you've set a posting goal for the page. Let's say you want to post 12 times a day. You set that posting goal. And then when you posted and you've synced the posts, it will tell you, okay, you've hit six out of 12 posts today and you've got another six hours in your day. So you now know the VA, okay, they need to post another six times today. So it's no longer that guessing game of have they done it? Let me go and check. It's they're like, no, let me just open up Butter, perfect. Okay, sweet, they've done it, move on.

So that's the one part. It's they're like, you've got your backend CRM and then you've got Butter. Sorry, H, can you grab that phone? And then outside of Butter, it's a tool that just, if you're a creator or if you're an agency, if you're creating content yourself or working with someone that's creating content, it gives you that ability to scale indefinitely. And that's more of what I've seen, especially in today's social media climate, flippers and accounts and all of these people is they're like, you look at someone like TJR, they have a clipping army every single time. The reason that guy is so famous now is you open up your phone and scroll, you know you're going to see him because you know someone else is putting content out about him. And it's like, even though they don't own the page, they don't own the funnel, they don't own any of that aspect. It's they're like, they still get what they want, they grow from it.

So that's part of the experience that we want to give. It's just we want to give an opportunity to someone that's at the bottom to be able to compete with someone that's all the way at the top because what the biggest jump is is they're like how many people are seeing you with Butter. So it's like, as long as you've got good content, you have the exact same system, the exact same structure, but just for a way more affordable price to actually now compete with those people at the very top of any industry. So that's kind of more holistic approach and kind of the overarching goal with Butter.

Francis: Got it. That makes sense. I mean, as a, I'm just thinking about, your distribution, your tracking, you're wrapping up so many different things into one piece. This seems to me like it would be absolutely no brainer for anybody that's new to the industry. But as you were saying earlier, even somebody that's a little bit more experienced, if you haven't built out all of this to its full capacity, even an agency like myself, where, you know, my biggest models are running, we're running five accounts and we're posting original content on all of those accounts. But we're doing that through multiple vectors. We have a scheduling tool like Metricool, right? We've got our entire editing workflow where the model's dropping it into a dump folder and then our video editor is taking that and he's putting the edited content into another folder and then our VA is uploading that to the scheduler which we use which is Metricool.

Having basically all of that being taken care of and automatically posted and then on top of that, having that system that's automatically posting your content track the performance of that content. Automatically recognizing what your winning pieces of content are and then rescheduling those across multiple accounts. It's insane, that sounds incredible. So this is something that I'm definitely looking forward to using. Just full disclosure to everybody in the audience. I haven't actually tried Butter out yet, but if this works as you guys describe it, it sounds like it's an absolute game changer. And you guys have been doing this since March was your official launch, is that correct?

Ollie: So yeah, Nick's been running this in obviously e-commerce as well as OFM now for the past, what Nick, two, three years he's been doing this with following this same sort of principle. Myself since March. And then really we've kind of in March, it was a very raw product. It was kind of, it worked and it was bringing in the views, but it was raw. It was needed to wrap your head around it. So really the main change from what we've done from March to today's date is just bringing the product to life and bringing it to market to where people are actually able to sit there and go, okay. Do know what? I know how to work with Butter because I've got, it's pretty simple. You click on this button, this button. It's not one of those where it's like, all right, let me spend the next six hours figuring out this tool. I think I've got it wake up the next morning. I don't actually have it. Let me spend another. It's that process has been solved and it's been a few months to solve, yeah, now it's there like, we've got people on that are posting and they're seeing 15 million views from one account in one week and they're posting six pieces of content. And it's there like, they're not over posting, they're not over feeding an algorithm that's already told them this works. It's there like, they're sitting there, they're going, I know what I need to post. These have worked before, just gonna do it again. And they sit there and it's, they're bringing in the views. So it's there like the system works. And that's what's, that's what's really been nice to see over these past few months.

Francis: Awesome.

Nicolai: Yeah, you know it's probably, like you could get the best software in the world. You know, like I think my career was basically built on a $100,000 HubSpot contract. That's kind of where I learned automation. And then I was the only one learning it, but my sales team of 10 have no idea how to use it. You know, like they're not fully using it. So it's, you could have the best software in the world and if they don't use it, I think that's probably the hardest part is adoption. So the hardest part has been making it into a product that's simple to get going, right? So we just released an onboarding, you know, now you can finally pay, you know, like we weren't able to, people weren't able to pay for it. Like we'd have a meeting and we upgrade you like manually just because it was just working. We have it working for us. So making it more seamless is how do we make this a seamless experience? Cause it's a brand new product. It's not a scheduler. It's definitely not a scheduler. We've tried API connections with the system. You'll get banned absolutely because I mean I posted up to a hundred times a day on one account, you know so it's trying to do that with the scheduler is It's gonna be rough. But yeah.

Francis: Not yet. Yeah, for sure. Okay, cool. So do you guys have a name for this? So it seems to me like because you're sort of wrapping everything up into one, do you have a name for this category of product? It seems to me like it's how do you describe this? What's your kind of elevator pitch to somebody that's totally agnostic?

Ollie: It's a tough question because you're right. We do. We encapsulate so much in one product that it's kind of there. It's almost having different departments to one business and the business is the software. If I was to put it in one sentence, it would just be an all in one scaling software because it's meant to scale your operations and it's just meant to scale them easily. So it's not a case of kind of they're like everything that we do points forward in scaling your business because especially for me starting off in business, I was there like, I'm sat there like, I don't know what to do. Do I do this? Do I do that? You then get this paralysis. So then you sit there and just go, okay, I'm just going to do this one. But you've chosen the wrong thing to do. So you've wasted two weeks. You've solved that issue, but it's the wrong issue to solve at that very moment.

Whereas what Butter now allows you to do is actually move the needle forward because you're able to see, okay, the accounts are open, we're getting views, but we're not getting conversions. What does that mean? Okay, this is what it means. Or the accounts are open, these videos are popping off, but these videos aren't. Okay, the content issue solved. We need to make more of this. So everything that Butter really tracks shows you it's all to just elevate what you're already doing and maximize what you're already, the work that you're putting in, it just maximizes everything that you're already doing.

Francis: Got it. So it's just you're ringing as much value as possible out of every unit of effort, and it's doing a lion's share of the work for you. So yeah, social media scalar seems like the perfect kind of catch-all term for this.

Ollie: Exactly.

Nicolai: I would say. I would also say demystifying organic. Before organic, there was some luck involved to it. You get a video, it gets 10 million views, you think you're a genius, and then my God, I'm printing money, and then the next month, you're barely cracking 100K. So it's with this, this is supposed to be your bread and butter, essentially. The highs and peaks aren't as bad. You know?

Francis: Yeah.

Nicolai: You know?

Francis: Got it. You're leveling it out by just basically increasing the volume.

Nicolai: Yeah, we're just increasing the volume so it's more consistent. It's more bread and butter. That's kind of where the name came from. I know that I've seen your content. You run very produced content. A lot of it goes viral. But maybe there's a month where it's some of it's not hitting. Maybe you're only averaging. You went from a month where you get 100 million views to the next month where it's 1 million views. And you're trying to figure out...

Francis: Yeah. Right, yeah. What the hell did I do? Yeah, yeah.

Nicolai: Damn, I thought I was a genius, you know, what happened? But some people are a lot better than replicating that than others. I feel like you have a skill to do that. Most people don't, right? So this is data backed organic, essentially.

Francis: Yeah, I love that. So in my consulting practice, the thing that I kind of preach to all of my consulting clients is on a one on one basis, the way that I operate is you give me all the information you can about one model and I help those clients come up with a go to market strategy for that one model. But I can only do that one at a time. Right. And so my agency, my, you know, my entire business is throughput maxed based on how much creative I personally can produce.

So if you're trying to, for me it works, I have a more craftsman like approach, that's just how I like to do business. But if you're an agency that's really focused on scaling revenue and you wanna manage dozens or hundreds of models, that shit is not gonna work. And scaling a creative operations team is really fucking difficult if you don't have a creative acumen yourself, you're not able to recognize people who are capable of producing good creative.

So yeah, I just I love the entire idea a lot of it is philosophically aligned with exactly what I tried to teach people except you guys are doing it in a way that's scalable infinitely and doesn't have that. You don't put the burden of how good is your content on the, you know? Obviously there it has to be good enough to go viral and to some extent But you take a lot of the guesswork out of it and again like leveling it out in terms of like consistency and volume the way that I like to explain it to people is something to the effect of the best way to win the lottery is to buy a bunch of tickets. So you guys are just basically a ticket printer.

Nicolai: We're printing tickets, bro. And you know, a lot of it came from, for example, my models don't speak English, right? So I don't have the luxury of this is exactly what I need you to say. Do this, you know, it's so it's, you know, you have to get creative. So that was a very big bottleneck I had that I solved with Butter, right? Some people might have an agency where they have a bunch of salary models that don't speak English and they live in a dungeon, you know, and you got to figure out what to do because you don't have production, you know, don't, you know, so.

Francis: Yeah. Yeah, you're working with very limited resources. No, it's great. I mean, there's dozens, if not hundreds of agencies out there that fit that exact description. And now, that's your market. And you guys are creating a product that really helps those guys out. And I think also, and I'm curious to get you guys' take on this. We'll talk a little bit more about kind of the future of the industry, I think, towards the end of the call. But OnlyFans, it seems to me, has kind of reached the peak. And so there's now even more of an impetus for anybody that's involved in the industry to get as much out of it as they possibly can within the next, let's say like three to five years while we're still at the top of the wave. I think you guys are, this product is very timely in that regard. And I also think it's incredibly clever not to continue to just glaze you guys for no reason on this call, but I think it's very clever because it has applications outside of OFM.

Nicolai: Please do it.

Francis: So when that wave dies down and you guys have done all of this incredible work and made a bunch of people wealthy through your product, you're going to have clients that exist in other industry verticals outside of OFM. And again, we'll talk more about the future of the industry in a second.

What I want to talk about now is kind of more outside of the product, more like entrepreneurial journey questions. So as somebody who's dipped his toes into product development, we had a product called Harpoon. I'm not gonna get into it here, because that's not what we're talking about. How did you guys recognize this gap in the market? And what made you want to tackle it? What problem did you see that you were like, okay, not only can we solve this, we can productize the solution?

Recognizing the Market Gap

Ollie: Yeah, so for me, it really dawned on me how effective this is in March. Because obviously that's when I met Nick. That's when I first learnt about Butter. Obviously in the back end of 2024 when I was more agency focused, just dialed in, I was working with a model in person. So it was there when you're working with a model in person, you see how much work content actually — it's not to take it away. Content is a difficult thing to film, especially if you're as, as you know, you're creating a good brand. We were posting to three different pages, three times a day, all organic. And it was skipped based. It was public content. I mean, I was out filming for six hours a day and then I'd come back and work 12 hours on the OF side. And it was kind of there like, yeah, it takes a lot out of you. Then when I met Nick in March this year, I essentially sat there and I was kind of there like, yeah, thanks for being here at this point. I needed you six months ago. It would have made my life a whole lot easier. So when Nick kind of showed me Butter, I sat there and I was there like, I was just thinking about how much money I would have made. But then it switches. They're like, you can still do it. And I think a big thing that we touched on is you talk so much about building a brand with a model, which is so important, especially with where kind of social media and OFM is going in the future.

But I think another part of that is they're like, what social media is becoming now, it's the brand is so important, but also having these accounts that are always kind of feeding you new eyes, are equally as important. And that's something that I've seen is, we took the model that I was working with in person, we took from 600K to two mil followers in the space of nine months, but then it just plateaued. The content was good. Everything was there, but it was just not really returning in the same way. Whereas with Butter, because of how we run the accounts, every post is getting 99% non-followers. So every reel is posting 99% non-follower audiences. So it's you know, with every single post you're hitting 99% of people that have never seen that content on this page. Obviously, they might know who you are, but it's still you're reminding them and it kind of goes back to the psychological science point — the more you see of someone the more attractive they become to you and in a space that we're in that's so important. So the more you're seeing of the model that's being put out there the more attractive you think she is. So instantly now you think this model is great and so important and so attractive because you're seeing her the whole time.

So really when Nick brought this to my attention and we started speaking it was there like there's a huge gap in the market because the only people that are able to run this at scale with these big agencies that have hundreds of models, they've got the infrastructure set up, they've got the capital behind them and they're able to do it because a lot of what I'm seeing is it's an expensive thing to do. Hire a bunch of VA, send them out a bunch of phones, US SIM cards, then you need the model to do content, then you're getting camera men, then you're getting this, you're getting this and it's there like. Butter just solves that. It's there like, don't need to send phones out there. You don't need to hire a bunch of VAs. It's there like, you just pay per account. This is the content that's working for you. No need to overthink it. And I think that's when it was really like, okay, the product makes sense to me. And I think Nick will say this, the first time me and Nick hopped on a call, we actually were speaking about chatting. I was helping Nick with chatting. And then when he showed me Butter, I was like, hang on.

Nicolai: I guess.

Ollie: There might be something that we can do with this, because it's there. That's when the cogs start working, speaking to Nick, and then everything from there was just bit by bit, more and more, okay, we face these issues as agency owners. So it's this product is built by agency owners for agency owners. It's not some guy who's sat in a den, dark lights, monster cans all around him, tapping away, building this thing and hoping that it works. It's every little part that we implement into Butter is meant to make our lives easier, but in the way it makes our lives easier, makes everyone else's lives easier because they're in the same boat as us.

Francis: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And I think that it's the same philosophy as all of the major CRMs. One of the things that I really like about OFM is that all of it is the entire product development space in OFM, 99% of it is OFM managers recognizing a gap in the market and saying, okay, I built this solution that works for my agency. Now how can I make this work for other people? And it sounds like that's more or less exactly what you guys have done, especially with the improved user experience and the improved UI making it way more streamlined so it's not just Nick that knows how to use it.

Ollie: Yeah, exactly, exactly that.

Francis: So are there any clients that you serve right now besides OFMs, or is that really what you guys are trying to perfect the product on OnlyFans management and then expand outwards? What's kind of your strategy there for growth?

Ollie: So yeah, for growth, obviously you wanna take over an industry. We've dipped our toes into other industries and we've seen success because at the end of the day, we can get views. As long as the content's good, you can get views. If we opened up 100 TJR accounts tomorrow, we'd get better views than what most of his clipping army's doing. It's there like, it's a no brainer. We're feeding it what it wants. So yeah, we've worked with info product guys, course sellers, people like that. Crypto casinos and e-commerce — obviously right now a large portion of our users are OFM, but that's just because myself and Nick's circle is OFM, but that's now the next stage of growing the business is rolling it out to more people.

Obviously OFM is always going to be the first group of people that we get on using it because we have the trust in the space of people that we know that we can turn to and be there — hey look at these results, do you want to try it out? Yeah absolutely, perfect, come on. But then the more and more that we grow and even now we're speaking to a few guys in different industries — clipping industries, social media management agencies, all of these things — anytime they see this it's they're like I've needed this tool for the past six years, but perfect, now it's here.

Nicolai: Yeah, this tool kind of came from e-commerce, you know, and it's hard to create new content for e-commerce, right? So it's it was kind of stumbled on. It was kind of an accident, but it was a good accident because we just took advantage of it. Yeah, this whole strategy came from outside of OFM, honestly. So we never brought it to OFM, which is actually a little bit harder. There's more difficult things to tackle like sexual content, does not exist in e-commerce, right? So there's little nuances there, but yeah, the goal — we chose OFM too, cause we're in it and it's a cash intensive, uses a good amount of cashflow. It's definitely more cashflow, less expenses than e-commerce. So I feel like there'd be more better paying clients in this field.

Francis: For sure. I mean, yeah, that's one of the things that I advocate for. I think more people should be creating products in this space because there's, you know, a limited amount of meat left on the bone. So there's a timeliness, urgency element. Everybody who's in the business who's been successful for the last, you know, anyone who's been around for more than a year, just like you said, it's an extremely cashflow positive business. Your margins are fat as hell. The way that I run my agency, there were times where it was 70% gross margins, because I just have no, I'm not doing paid ads. I'm doing all of the creative myself. And then on the model side, my contracts, I'm getting 63% of net rev from the models. So it's money, money, money, give me more. But I'm always.

Nicolai: Yeah, e-commerce, sometimes you operate at 5%, depending how big, you know? Yeah, it's crazy.

Francis: UGH I could never bro. I could absolutely fucking never no shot If it's less than 50% gross margins count me out.

Nicolai: But this is honestly the first business that exists like this where it's no inventory, literally almost like, I'm not going to say minimal effort because sometimes it is luck. Sometimes.

Francis: Yeah. I mean, relative to any other way to very quickly become a millionaire, I would say OFM is, it's gambling is maybe the easiest, but you have to be extraordinarily lucky, obviously. Then it's winning the lottery, and then it's OFM.

Ollie: Yeah.

Nicolai: Yeah, I know someone, bro, he's just — I don't post, I don't have any, I just, she posts twice a day and he's raking in 400K. I'm like, you know, sometimes you just get a model that just posts and you know, that's it. One account, just post and literally I'm just okay, so there's definitely a level of luck in this as well. Yeah, and then, you know, I moved out to Columbia, I'm based in Columbia now, literally two weeks in, both of my stores crashed. So I'm like, what do I do? You know? So I was just like, there's a lot of women here, how do we capitalize on it? And yeah, that's basically my story, how it fell into my lap.

Francis: Yeah, cool. Yeah. So speaking of that, given that you guys are a company that facilitates advertising for OFM, how do you guys approach advertising for the product, for Butter?

Ollie: So yeah, advertising right now is, it's an interesting one. And me and Nick have obviously spoken about this a few times. We actually, yeah, to me, there's an issue when you need to advertise something first off that no one knows about. So no one cares about and no one knows how it works. So it kind of all loops back. And earlier on this year, I read a book called Breakthrough Advertising where it essentially was explaining the, when no one knows about your product or no one cares about your product, that's the most difficult product to market because essentially anyone that comes on and they hear Butter's name, they go, all right, cool, whatever, move on to the next thing.

So really right now, what we're looking at is it's bringing awareness. It's essentially what we're doing right now is trying to bring awareness in the best way possible. Right now we're doing it through using my personal brand and that's kind of just creating these videos where I'm explaining case studies using just a Miro board and then a split screen, me here, Miro board here explaining how we generated $14,000 for this one client using Butter in the past month. And then here's how I did this using Butter. So it's getting the name out there, but it's also showing the systems behind Butter because that's a lot of what we get, especially when myself and Nick hop on these calls now with people that are interested in using Butter. Before we set up our Telegram channel, 90% of people that were coming on would be there — yeah, I heard about Butter. I heard that you just mass-distribute content. How do you actually do it? And it was kind of there like, okay, we need to rethink this and really understand, okay, we don't know, sorry, no one else knows what we're doing. Myself and Nick have great faith in it because we've obviously used it and seen the cashflow that it's brought us. But now it's a case of, it's almost running an awareness campaign to know what Butter does, how it works and what it can do for them before we can really start sitting there and being there — okay, let's blast money at paid ads. Let's blast money at opening up a hundred new Butter accounts and just pump this content and flooding the Instagram feed. Because at the end of the day, it would be dumb not to use Butter for our own purpose of scaling Butter because that's the whole point of Butter. So that's really what we're doing right now.

Francis: Yeah. Sure. Yeah.

Ollie: Obviously with growing a personal brand, it's slow growth. It's one of those...

Nicolai: Yeah, but we're not tying it to OF. You know, that's something we're not — for example, this is no one knows what I do. I was a little bit adamant on getting out, I wish I would have the mask too, you know, like no one knows. No one knows what I do. They just think, you know, I just post my dog. That's basically it. But, you know, sorry, you know, figured it out or whatever. But yeah, basically we're not — the way marketing it is just as distribution. Basically right now. It's nothing we're not tying it into an OFM product. If you go to the site it says probably OnlyFans once very small in there. So yeah.

Francis: I think that's smart. I mean, given that there's a ton of opportunity. OnlyFans is the, I think it's one of the easiest markets to saturate. I think you guys are doing the right thing in terms of establishing a foothold here. Getting this in the hands, because this just seems to me like it should be in the hands of every OFM, especially right now. Now is the time. So yeah, and I'd love to talk maybe more in depth about marketing strategy and some specifics maybe off camera, off the record after the call, because this is something that I'm personally really interested in.

But yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So right now it's just you're in the early stages, you're educating people on what the product is. After, what, how are you approaching goal setting? What is the point that you reach where you say, okay, enough people are aware of Butter, now we're gonna do that full scale marketing campaign. What is do you have a specific revenue target? Is there a market penetration target? How are you guys evaluating that? Or are you there yet?

Ollie: Yeah, I think recently, I think Nick will agree with me as we've been picking up a lot of momentum recently. And the thing that's beautiful with Butter is that to get to 100K MRR, it obviously sounds like a lot of money, but really what it is, it's you just need one or two big guys that gonna come in and say, right, I need 100 accounts tomorrow.

Nicolai: Give me a thousand accounts.

Francis: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Ollie: So we spoke to one guy in a completely different industry and he just said, okay, I'd want to do this at a 2000 account scale. And it was there like, huh, we've crossed the one thousand, one hundred thousand MRR mark right there. And it's that's all it is. It's it with one big client away. And I think recently with we've been getting the name out there more. We've been getting some warm leads coming in through kind of strategic partnerships, few of the videos, few of chatting to people around. And that's where it's really shown to me that it's that a hundred K MRR Mark that both myself and Nick set where it's like, okay, do you know what? It's full scale ahead at this point. It's I don't care about making money from it myself right now. It's put it all into ads, put it all in kind of coming up with this next thing. And I think that's why it's beautiful to be able to run an OF agency on the side because it's like, I don't need the cashflow from this software right now. So I don't know if all the money comes back and we just go, okay, push it all back in. It's there like.

Francis: Yes.

Ollie: We're comfortable without. Really, yeah, 100K MRR is the target before we kind of just go, do you know what? Chuck it all into ads, get it out there. And I think that it's very possible to hit that before the end of the year because the more and more people use it, the more and more people are talking to other people about it. And that's all it takes is one person to tell another person to tell another person. And both of mine and Nick's network is big enough with the right individuals to where we'll have someone that comes in and just wants to bankroll $10,000 a month into this. And you get one of those guys, they'll talk to another one of those guys and that's kind of all you need. So yeah, the 100K MRR mark for us right now is that, that's the goal that we're pushing for next.

Francis: Got it. Awesome.

Nicolai: Yeah, we have a little campaign, you know, we're kind of building in public with Ali's brand and that's one of the campaigns that we're doing right now. As far as goal setting for me on Butter, I would say, you know, WAP has become very popular recently. They were the first ones to standardize a way to commoditize views essentially.

Francis: So explain really quickly for the audience who might not be aware of what WAP is, just to give them a point of reference.

Nicolai: So yeah, so WAP is a platform where essentially they commoditized views, right? It was the first time it's happened where you pay for the amount of views that you get. Butter is essentially the same thing, but you own the entire funnel. So, you know, you don't have to pay expensive CPMs. You don't have to depend on clippers to clip your content. You can literally run your own funnel if you want to. You know, set up Revio or a many chat to your account, go ahead. You know, there a lot of things that WAP doesn't do, right? That I feel like we do — the same thing. We're commoditizing views, but you also get to own the whole funnel. So I think my main goal is to basically disrupt that.

Francis: Got it. Okay, cool. And what do you guys, how are you guys approaching pricing? Is it per account connected? You said you have some CPM options. What is, what's your general pricing model?

Ollie: Yeah, so right now it's split. So obviously the done for you and the do it yourself are just two different prices. The done for you is you just pay per account that's being ran for you for the month. And then that will also come included with full account management and then also an Instagram account provided that has high male US audience. And then yeah, 12 posts per day per page. And that account will have anywhere between 400 to 1500, 2000 followers. So it's the accounts been posted on recently, it's already hit the algorithm to get to those numbers of followers. So it's there like it's going to continue performing. Then obviously the do it yourself, it's just how many accounts that you want to connect to the software. If you want to connect five accounts, you connect five accounts. I think it's $199 per month, then 10 and 20. And then obviously after that, when it's larger numbers, myself and Nick would kind of come up with a number that makes sense for us. And then we would go from there.

Francis: Got it, so you'd like a discount for volume pricing.

Nicolai: Yeah, so the way we calculate CPMs is sorry, the way we calculate CPMs is completely different, right? CPMs is calculated based on your cost, right? So I don't know if you're paying a VA $1,000 to run 100 accounts is going to be different than my CPM where I'm paying one VA to run 10 accounts, right? But it's all calculated. You just put it in there and it calculates it all for you. You can scale however you want. So essentially you're not paying for CPM, but you could see how much you're paying, you know? Yeah.

Francis: Okay, got it, okay, got it. So that's just a, that's a metric that you're tracking, not a charging mechanism. That's what I wanted to clear up.

Nicolai: Correct, we don't charge. Yeah, so if you get a million views, it's still gonna cost the same. But you see, we've seen CPMs at fractions of a penny, you know? So.

Ollie: Yeah.

Francis: Yeah, well that's a very good clarification because as a potential customer if I was like, well if a piece of content gets 100 million views and you guys are getting a piece of that, that's a little bit inconvenient for me. But the flat pricing makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I think that's a solid pricing model.

Nicolai: Yeah, so with that you can say, you know, we for the done for you we charge $799 for five accounts. Do it yourself. We charge five accounts just to connect $199. Then the price drastically reduces. connecting 20 accounts is double the price. So $399. So it's we just we just don't want to be a $50 product, you know, so we just wanted to price ourselves a little bit higher but if you want to scale accounts it's not expensive to essentially.

Francis: That makes sense, yeah. Also, I mean, I think that sounds incredibly reasonable. If you're running it, I mean, that pays for itself instantly. That's not even close to a consideration for any agency that's worth their salt. If you're basically able to, fully manage, do everything that Butter does for, you know, $199 for five accounts is an absolute no-brainer. I would do that in a heartbeat. So, last question. This is for both of you guys, and this is something that I ask to everybody on the show. If you can give one piece of advice to anybody listening, anybody that's on the entrepreneurial journey, maybe something that you could go back and tell yourself, when you were just getting started in business, what would that piece of advice be?

Final Advice for Entrepreneurs

Ollie: There's no such thing as work-life balance. To me, a lot of what's put out there and I think a lot of when you're young and trying to start making money, you're gonna have a lot of people that tell you, you're young, you need to do this, you need to go and enjoy your life and it's kind of they're like. Everyone has different views on everything. And for me, I have a lot of my friends who will be there, why do you work so much? And it's kind of they're like, you don't really need to know the reason why I work so much. And then they'll say, but you need to have a work life balance. To me, I go through periods of extreme working hours where I'm working 16 hour days and I'll maintain those 16 hour days for three months. And then I have a weekend where I'll go and absolutely blitz it with friends. And it's there like that works for me.

But I think when you're starting off in this and you get people to tell you, hey you need to be doing this and you should be enjoying your life, you're young, it's kind of blocking out the noise and just understanding that you are competing with other people that are putting in the hours. So when you see it that and it's there like someone's telling you work-life balance, well you should also know that there are people working 100 hour weeks the whole year. So it's there like if you want to see success, it's not a case of Let me just have this night off. It's kind of they're like no you need to be locked in and you need to be locked in for a long time. That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it. You start to enjoy the hours that you work, you start to enjoy the kind of results that you see, the things that you can go and do and that's a big thing for me — it's work and life. Sometimes it's more work than life and then sometimes it's more life than work for a short period of time. Yeah, work-life balance to me isn't a thing. It's you're either working or you're living life, but you do it at extremes and that's how I've kind of found success.

Francis: Got it. Nick, what about you?

Nicolai: I would say pick one thing and just do that one thing. In this day and age, there's so many ways to make money. There's so many distractions. Just do the one thing, become a master at it. Super master. Don't look at anything else. I just added Twitter a month ago, you know? It was just Instagram. So that's one thing that people get wrong in this industry. I want to do this, this, this, this. I'm going to — no, just do the one thing really good. Hyper-focus on that one thing. And that's it. That's basically, I think if you do that for long enough, you're going to be successful in whatever, whichever field it is.

Francis: Yeah, and I think also adding on to that because I agree 100%. Don't underestimate the time that it takes to master something. I think some people think that they do something for six months a year and they're like Yeah, I've got this shit figured out and it's there's you've scratched the surface maybe. If you're lucky you're you know if you're doing it for five years, you know Instagram for instance. If you're managing one model and you have one and she has one account and you've been doing well for a year or two you still know absolutely fucking nothing. Maybe have a good model, until you expand that to, until you've done that with 10, 20, 100 models, or 100 different pages, or you're able to replicate that success at scale, and you really know every in and out of the platform, that's mastery, not achieving success in one instance.

Nicolai: Yeah, exactly. Like for example, it took me years to add another traffic funnel, you know, which is Twitter. Before I added that, I needed to see consistent results of traffic before I even considered it, you know? And it was finally, okay, it's worth my time. Let me allot a little bit of time in the Twitter, but I'm still mastering Instagram, you know? Yeah.

Francis: Yeah. Alright guys, well thank you so much for your time. One last time, if you want to try out Butter for yourself, go to hellobutter.io or just click the first link in the description of this video. And before we sign off, Ollie, is there anything, you mentioned a personal brand, Nick, I know you might have something, is there anything else you guys want to plug before we take off?

Ollie: Yeah, if we could plug the telegram for Butter as well because that obviously gives the explanation videos so if people actually want to see the software for themselves, they can go in there. They can see how the posting's done, how it works. What is it? And then obviously the tips and tricks that me and Nick have seen success with Butter and then yeah If we could plug my personal brand, it's just @OlliMcKinley. So my name down there, but just one L.

Francis: Absolutely. I'll make sure that's all in the description for sure. And anything from you, Nick?

Nicolai: No, that's it. That's it. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me on, Francis.

Francis: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. All right. I'm going to stop the recording now.